S2 EP6: TAMMY GOODMAN

This episode ALMOST fell through the cracks and we're so happy it didn't! Tammy is a friend, colleague and client of Nicoa's and her story is a common one yet powerful in the lessons learned.  She joins Nicoa from her SABBATICAL (Talk about a LIFE BY DESIGN!!) and they revisit her multiple life choices as a professional and as a wife and mother! She digs deep on self-awareness and career confidence while working on her own imposter syndrome and bag lady fears over the past decade. She has so many insights to share with the main takeaway of LIFE IS OKAY, YOU ARE OKAY, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OKAY!  A LIFE BY DESIGN is whatever you make it and you're allowed to choose and enjoy your life every step of the way. You can't get this thing called life wrong and integrating flow is the key oh and don't forget to "Leave a little space for the surprises!" ~ Tammy Goodman

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Transcript

Nicoa: 0:01

Grab your coffee and join me Nicoa For a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope that will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Good morning, everybody. I am with Tammy Goodman, Tammy, how are you this morning? I am fabulous. Nicoa. Thank you for asking. How are you doing? I'm doing great. You're up there in the beautiful mountains of North Carolina. You told me it's getting cold already. And I'm down here still in a tank top and on the beach. So you guys have some cold weather already coming your way.

Tammy Goodman: 0:46

We've had a little bit and we're supposed to have a hard freeze next week. So it'll be our time for all the herbs and you know what's left in the garden to go flat? That's right. So everybody, Tammy is my really good friend. And she started out as a colleague of mine back at Thermo Fisher Scientific. What year did you say? 2005? I had to look it up this morning. 2005 I was we were just babies back then. Where are you in guy Broadbent came storming in like a breath of fresh air. We were going through that acquisition and nobody was telling us anything. And you know, you guys were touring around. It was awesome. Like, you probably were our initial like life savers. They came in and made us feel like okay, we're not gonna be fired. We're gonna have jobs. I'm so glad to hear that. Right. When you say when you came in there. The first phrase I heard in my head was like a bat out of hell. No, really, and a lot of energy.

Nicoa: 1:48

did have a lot of energy. And I still do fueled by caffeine. I have my coffee this morning. Do you have yours? I have my decaf Chai? Oh, that's right, your decaf Chai? And I have my very caffeinated oat milk latte. So someone told me I was supposed to be talking more about coffee.

Tammy Goodman: 2:07

Well, I do love the oat milk and the coffee, because that is so creamy and rich. But it really is.

Nicoa: 2:12

Well, not only did we meet back in 2005, and we were colleagues for a hot minute before I moved on, and then you stay and really grew your career. You were there 18 years as a product management lead and director of commercial excellence. And then we started coaching together. Right towards the end. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about why you reached out to have me coach you at that point in your life.

Tammy Goodman: 2:41

So it's a it's, it could be a long story, we'll keep it short. But but, uh, you know, so I have recently departed a long marriage, that was not great. And, you know, I figured, while I'm just changing everything and blowing up my entire life at 46 years old, you know, like, you can when you think about it, I remember you and I talked about this, we spent a lot of time working on like our career. Like, for me, I spent a lot of time work focused on my career life, but I didn't spend a lot of time focused on my personal life because it was kind of poopy. And so I put my energy into work. And, you know, I realized as I came out of that, you know, I wanted more I wanted more. Thermo, my son was 18, you know, so I wasn't as actively parenting as I had been. And I couldn't get more like without some help. And so that was when I reached out to you. And it was funny, because, you know, I had kept up with you over all that time, like, I heard you were doing the coaching. And I was like, wow, you know, I'd asked thermo for coach, but I didn't qualify at my level. And so then I was like, Well, I've just, you know, I do well enough, I'll pay for it myself. And of course, I'm gonna reach out to you. Yeah, so, yeah. And I was so

Nicoa: 4:01

grateful. I remember, you know, it's a very common timeframe in people's lives, when they're going through major life changes, and you had just left the, you know, the relationship that was no longer serving you and your son is now an adult, right? So 18 Things are about to change. So it's, that is a very typical timeframe between 40 and 50 years of age where people do typically reach out to me, because you're right, we're not balanced in focusing on our personal lives like we should be. And I'm really glad what, what were some of the things that that we worked on that you recall, like, how was that helpful for you during that time?

Tammy Goodman: 4:38

I think one like you know, really realize that you can't separate the two. You know, you can't separate your personal life from your work life. Maybe you couldn't years past like, Oh, but I think it's so hard to separate those. And so we were, I know that we were talking about work stuff, but so many times it ended up being about personal behaviors or personal challenges. And you know, the biggest takeaway and think about this a lot, because I so wished that so between my partner and I, now we have four kids, two are well grown adults, but two are still in their 20s and learning how to be adults. And I wish that there was a way to get that what I went through with you into them earlier, because I think it would save a whole world of hurt. And it's about owning, owning your decisions, all of that, you know, that it comes to you, if you're open to it. You know, even meeting my my guy, if I hadn't been open to that, it wouldn't have happened, you know, yeah, you

Nicoa: 5:37

really transition not only did you ultimately make the decision during our partnership, and put together a plan a little bit better thoughtfully than I had when I left. And when I ultimately quit, but you, you and I partner together to get that plan in place for you and to reassure you that you are worthy of a new opportunity, and you were worthy of a love that was a 10 out of 10. I mean, but is a 10 out of 10. I mean, he is such a partner. And I love that and not only are you mothering even more powerfully, you know, you you are embodying that way of being now. So those kids are there picking it up. It's all in good timing.

Tammy Goodman: 6:20

I do believe and think so. Yeah.

Nicoa: 6:24

I do wish, though, that we'd known back then what we know now. I mean, clearly, you know, you so not only have you did you ultimately leave thermo but what was it that you had to believe in in yourself? What was it that your dialogue was before going and taking the new role and higher position at pace? Back in 2020? What was that thought process?

Tammy Goodman: 6:46

A lot of it was realizing that it's gonna be okay, you know that. And I love it. You have all these like notes from all the different podcasts you've done from all all your people already said all the really smart stuff. But one of them is the imposter syndrome, the bag lady syndrome. I mean, we all especially I think as women suffer from it, and so like it was just knowing that it's okay. Like, it's okay to explore new things, I don't have to make sure that we can pay my pay the bills, I have enough buffer that I can make it, you know, for a little while. And so it was just knowing that it was okay. It was really the big thing, you know, I think, especially our generation, it was really beat into us, like you have to work you have to get a good job, you can't not work you got to you know, and, and you don't have to work every minute of it.

Nicoa: 7:36

You don't Yeah, I said yesterday, in an interview when I was the guest on a podcast, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from my ex father in law. And he and I butt heads a lot during my previous marriage, and I love him, you know, bless his heart, bless my heart. But at the end of the day, I remember complaining once about my life or something. And I was super busy. And I had to do this and this and this. And he said to me quite wisely, you know, Nicoa You don't have to slay a dragon every day. And it just let me breathe for a minute. And I've always remembered that I'm so grateful that he said that because you're right. Our generation was, you know, it was beat into us, you know, work hard, then play, work hard, be successful, then play, you know, tell us a little bit about how you were raised? Like, where did you gain those perspectives? Yeah,

Tammy Goodman: 8:27

I mean, my dad was was definitely a he was a hard man, you know, and his mentality was always like, if you don't go to college, you're gonna have to work at McDonald's the rest of your life. And, and, you know, he used to say, That's me all the time. And now I think about I'm like, some days that sounds pretty good. You know, like, how can I change it? How could I make it better? How can I inspire these people, because a little bit of a segue, but as being a leader for many years now, like part of what comes I think some with maturity, and I'm skipping ahead a little bit is, you know, leading people for to happiness. But, you know, like the way people even lead in our generation and the way our parents were mentored and coached, like to have mentors and coaches in our careers at their age, so they just brought home what they lived with, too. But yeah, so But we, you know, we had a, we had horses and moved around quite a bit, but my mom was the breadwinner. And I think that kind of carried over and to my wife as well, because I was the breadwinner for a long time. Yeah, that's

Nicoa: 9:35

interesting. That's unusual still in that previous generation for the female to be the breadwinner. I mean, our generation that's much more common. But yeah, that's interesting that your mother was she

Tammy Goodman: 10:34

did it by hard work, though. She didn't have a college education. And, you know, she worked her way up through and, you know, but she had to work and that was in the days when insurance was very particular my dad had her Her condition and so that she couldn't change jobs, you know? So I mean, I think about that pressure that maybe that's where some of it comes from I think about that pressure did i She always spoke to is I can't quit my job. I have to work because I have to make the money I have to have the insurance is you and that's like the generation we grew up. And so then we get it and we carry it on where I have to work. I have to have to go go go.

Nicoa: 11:14

How have you. I remember once when we, when we were talking and coaching. The Go, go go was a big piece of the of the work. And how what was it like to be you then? And what's it like to be you now in relationship to that human doing versus human being way of living?

Tammy Goodman: 11:34

I take naps. I like my naps. I always love it. What do you reference naps? Because I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm a nap person. Yeah, like it's a good day. If I get a little nap and I'm just a cat Napper. You know, people are either like cat snappers or two hour diapers. And I'm definitely a cat Napper. But you know, it's just, it's I, it's just giving yourself permission, I think. And I still have to do it. It's always gonna be a work in progress, I think because I also am old school type A extrovert, you name it. Hi strong. You know, it's letting myself not to like sleep till seven. So one of the things I've been doing lately is that I don't set an alarm. I'm just trying to see like, what is my natural Time to wake up? Because I every day of my son's life, I got up at 530 because that was the only time that I had to myself, you know, to like, I would just eat breakfast, read news, whatever, for 30 minutes. And then the day started. Yeah. So you know. And that's been interesting. I bet.

Nicoa: 12:37

That's interesting. So when you wake up now in the morning, what is your thought process? I mean, is there freedom there? Is it like, ah, possibility, or do you still have that anxiety that says, Oh, maybe I should be getting up?

Tammy Goodman: 12:51

A little bit of both. Probably. There's also a little bit of like, Heck, yeah, no, rebel?

Nicoa: 12:57

I like that. Yeah. I'm rebelling against the societal expectations that have to be moving and going all the time. Exactly.

Tammy Goodman: 13:04

Well, I'm rebelling against the societal, like, the work expectations is that you have to be on a conference call at 8am.

Nicoa: 13:11

Oh, yeah. I don't do anything before you scheduled this at 830. Tammy. I know I, I do have for all the other people, not you. You should have known. It should have been like 930 10.

Tammy Goodman: 13:27

rolling in. Exactly. Yeah, I don't eat I don't eat breakfast at my computer. Oh, you know, just things like that. Just that legs have for years, I had like two meals a day in front of my computer while I'm working and you know, to coming from big business big corporate, and as a leader, that, like you're on the phone all the time. And so it's just kind of, like sitting there like, I gotta get my lunch. I gotta, you know, what, am I going to run that errand? I gotta go. Like a friend of mine reached out who? They're seasonal, between here and out west and they just got back. And she's like, can you can have lunch on Thursday? And I'm like, You bet. Yes, I can. Yeah. And she's like, well, I want to be cognizant of your time. I'm like, we'll take all the time we need

Nicoa: 14:11

Oh, that's beautiful. Really excited my heart where you actually I remember your relationship with your body was a big piece of our work as well. And looking externally like you know, the job, the career, my body, like you're a big avid biker, and a biking enthusiast and you and bird like to do these big trips. And so you were very conscious of your body. Talk to me about your relationship with your body back then. And your relationship with your body now?

Tammy Goodman: 14:45

Yeah, so I've always done stuff, right. I mean, I've always had something is what I tell people. Like even when I moved here, I was mountain bike after work every day and then and it's why I moved to Asheville was so that I could do those things. You know, outdoor enthusiast, but uh, you know, then live I lived on a farm with my axe and so I always used to joke but living on a farm you don't need to go to the gym. Right? You know, but but even then I always still ran at lunch like my lunch breaks. Where do you know a quick 5k Come back shower.

Nicoa: 15:20

Pause, pause everybody listening just choked on their coffee. Quick 5k at lunch in my terms

Tammy Goodman: 15:30

10 minute mile and I haven't done that near so this is amazing

Nicoa: 15:33

that I love I love this because it really puts it into perspective. You had a very intentional life before, but it was also based on control and goal setting. Like I had to have a goal at lunch I had to have a goal that I had. I have to have my 30 minutes right so you're very in tensional about that structure. And let me ask you, what was the cost of that to you?

Tammy Goodman: 15:56

Oh, well being spit out on the other end of all of that. It was massive exhaustion. And you and I talked about this, I think through our coaching and even now a little bit as and we'll talk about my current transition later. But in my current transition, like some days, I can't get out of bed, I'm just like, seven o'clock hits, and I'm just like, I am not getting out of bed. I'm just so tired. You know, or in like, I love going to bed at night. But, you know, just kind of really went through a spell initially of a lot of pain, a lot of just exhaustion, like, I did not perform very well at work that year through my transition. You know, and it wasn't that I wasn't doing what I needed to do, but I just wasn't into it. Like, just, you know, energetically. Yeah, hanging on. Yeah. You know, like, you weren't?

Nicoa: 16:52

Well, I mean, so that physicality piece was your body was messaging you, you know, it's time to rest. It's time to rest so that you can reset and see what, you know, make space for this beautiful, something even better, as I like to say that really was the outcome. At what point do you really feel like it clicked because I have to admit, I'm not always the best coach. And I tend to project. I really feel like, sometimes I just don't, I'll listen and listen and listen. And then there's a point where I get a little annoyed. And so I'm like, okay, Tammy. Right. Like, well, what are you going to do about it? So I can remember hanging up sometimes thinking, I don't think she likes me. Because it was frustrating for you. I mean, it was a real awakening for you. I mean, and now we get tough. And I'm just curious. Yeah, tell me what that was like for you, for me to be a little bit assertive, if you will.

Tammy Goodman: 17:49

But I just remember like, every time we'd get an uncomfortable zone, I'd have to go get like I remember this one day very clearly, I'd have to go get another drink or something. Like whenever, whenever we get to an uncomfortable topic, I hear you get up and start moving around. You said something like that? I'm like, Okay,

Nicoa: 18:07

you did, you would start walking around, you start organizing, you couldn't sit still in that. And this is I really do believe people have the hardest time sitting with uncomfortable emotions. And we would get close. And I would push and push and then he would get up and you couldn't do it. Have another drink. I know you were drinking while we were coaching when I drink.

Tammy Goodman: 18:28

Whenever tea, but I know. We always did our sessions in the morning. Give me a break.

Nicoa: 18:34

Well, you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning. Oh, I'm just kidding. That's. But yeah, so I do share that because that was a big piece of the body emotion language connection. So again, tell me more about the relationship with the body, because we even went on to do some rapid transformational therapy work around that. Tell us more about your relationship there. Yeah, so

Tammy Goodman: 18:57

you know, that's a big part of what I'm working on. Now. Still, of course, Sue is really listening to my body. And I think we all have to practice that intentionally. And I will throw in like, menopause hit me like a ton of bricks. So that's for some of it as well. Now, if not when we were coaching, but you know, even prior to that, I'm sure that there were some perimenopause, things contributing at the time that you know, moving into the next level of, you know, like self care. And, you know, you mentioned the AVID cycling, so part of what I wanted in a relationship, as I transitioned with someone who was active in my guys, cycling, not, for lack of a better term. So he cycles a lot and we ride a tandem together, and we cycle a lot. And with that comes, you know, just the desire to fuel your body better and be healthy and feel optimal. You know, and when you do endurance type activities, you need to be able to feel yourself well and I do like my sweets a little bit. And so I had reached out to you because you were just coming out of your RTT training and so we did do a session on sugar to help me with my little sugar issue. And, you know, what I really took out of it because yes, I still eat sugar, but like I used to do, but what I really took out of it is that digging deep, like so when they're when I feel an emotion that is strong or abrupt or whatever is, you know, like wait a minute, step back. What's going on here, you know, like in thinking about, like the fundamentals of where it's coming from, like the roots and, and because I did as I told you earlier to like Sometimes I still think like, I'm just gonna call on the CO and schedule another session on this topic. And because, you know, because it's like, sometimes you're like, well, maybe I need to do dig deeper, like, I have this recurring dream, and I just related to my previous marriage and, you know, like, gosh, When is this gonna stop? Just so, you know, is it time to dig deeper? Right? Oh, no, you know, and I wonder, and I try to dig deeper myself. But yeah, maybe a little help once in a while, is something worth going for? Right? Yeah,

Nicoa: 21:21

well, you already demonstrated that in your life, sometimes it depends on the stage and that you're in with regards to how ready you are for that next level of reflection. But you just described something quite beautiful. That really, I think, is the ultimate goal of any kind of coaching partnership. And, and that is, you pause and you reflect.

Jennifer Gardner: 21:42

We hope you're enjoying listening to this episode of Coffee with Nicola, make sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode and follow Coffee with Nicoa on Instagram to find inspiring content that will help you begin creating your life by design.

Nicoa: 21:57

And you've learned to sit with the emotion, like, wow, what is that? Yeah, where does that come from? I wonder why I feel that way. And that skill is a skill you can learn. And you are in a much different space than you were when we first started partnering together because before it felt like everything was just all like so close to you. Like, you know, the things at work the things at home, the things in your mind, your body, your sugar, your whatever. And now I feel that more groundedness from you and that space to give you that ability to reflect how often would you say you do that? And what is the benefit of that for you?

Tammy Goodman: 22:37

Well, I always say I'm still not, you know, fully recovered from some of like, my previous life. So, you know, I mean, weekly, there's probably some emotion at some point in time, or even like last night, I felt myself getting kind of worked up because my schedule this week is heavy. And I'm trying to coordinate a lot of different things that are going on this week. And it's just, I started feeling that tension, you know, and it's like, well, it just got to bed, just relax, read your book. Don't, you know, just let it go. Right, like having that ability to have that self talk, which is something that I think we develop as we age, too. It's not just you know, but the coating definitely has put it forward. And I still do a lot of I listen to a lot of podcasts. I listen to yours, of course, it's my favorite. But I listen to a lot of others as well. Brooke Castillo, she does like her little 20 minute things. Those are fun. You know, and she's really kind of one of those tough ones. I listen to a lot of fitness stuff. And so yeah, yeah. And

Nicoa: 23:50

those skills all combined, everyone, we're all talking about the same stuff. And at the end of the day, what you hear and what resonates with you is what's meant for you. Now, what was the self talk before? Again, I really like reflecting on the before and after, because it helps them see themselves in your before. So how would you articulate that self talk? You know, back when we started partnering together? I don't even know when that was 20? Well,

Tammy Goodman: 24:17

emotions weren't safe. Yeah, it was 20 as 2019 because we were still coaching right at the beginning of COVID. That's

Nicoa: 24:24

right. Yeah. Yes. Emotions weren't safe. Tell us more about what that means. Yeah,

Tammy Goodman: 24:30

so you know, having someone to share my like, thoughts or concerns or emotions worth, it just just didn't exist in my previous life for so, you know, like, just so basically, you just pushed it down, right? You're kind of keep it inside you internalize it. Just go do more work. Like I think I'm probably one of those people that buried myself and work to avoid, you know, uncomfortable time. So, and living on a farm to Chris, I had my animals which I loved. And I could go out there for hours and just hang out with my goats. Yeah, my ticket, whatever.

Nicoa: 25:12

So and I know that, you know, we're not going to talk about that previous like that much. But Jay put it in perspective. For those listening. You were in an environment that was not a conscious coupling relationship. You were in what may be viewed as abusive, you know, emotionally and at the end of the day. That's how you coped. You had to put your energy into places that you could get fulfilled, which was the animals the work, you know, places where you were safe to be you and I'm just I just want to take a minute and congratulate you for getting out of that situation. A lot of people stay stuck, and you got out. Now talk to us a little bit about how you Got you and your son into a new place? Like what was that thought process you had to go through in order to create this life by design that you were so deeply writing and craving?

Tammy Goodman: 26:01

Yeah, and I think, I think it was a, it was not an overnight process. So, you know, it was, I will say, really three years in the making. Because there were some events that occurred. And I started seeing a therapist, because I was having health issues as well back to, you know, the connection between the mind and the body. And it's amazing how strong that is. And you don't even realize, like, I love it, whenever you bring up like, you know, you having these issues, and then they went away, or any of your other people you interview bring it up as well, and it's so there. But um, you know, I started seeing this therapist, because I was having health issues, and I was not in a good place mentally. And as we started digging in, and she said, you realize that that's not healthy, you know, and that was really like that first line of like, stepping back and going, huh, okay, you know, and then as it progressed, for me, it was, I had to set some boundaries, and I started setting boundaries, and they weren't being responded to very well. But those were the red flags that were like, Okay, this is not what, this is not a healthy relationship. I'm not role modeling for my son, I'm not role modeling for myself. And, you know, it's not the life that I wanted, or that I always saw myself having. And we were young. I mean, we all were young, when we got married, and, and it was fine. It was good. When we got married, we wouldn't got married, if it wasn't good. You know, like, you know, I still respect that part of the life and so, but, you know, again, like, things continued to degrade, and I was setting these boundaries, and it just was not being responded to, and I'm thinking, holy crap, my son's almost 18. And is this life I want after he moves out? You know, like, Is this our like, what is our life? Yeah, you know, I really started looking at what was our life together going to look like after he goes to college, or whatever he chose to do. And I didn't see it, it just wasn't there, you know, like this is and we and bringing that forward, like you always say you asked your, you know, former husband, like, are you willing to change and the decision and it was kind of like that, to where I'm like, is this the life you want? Right? I

Nicoa: 28:12

know, it is kind of shocking. I do think that our relationships, though, can be seasonal. And I know that might sound like flippant, but I'm, I'm I'm sitting here looking at the construct of marriage and the commitments and we make a lot of shit up about what's supposed to happen. You know, you in your previous partner, it served you well, you had this beautiful son, he had this beautiful experience on this farm until it no longer was beautiful. So you got the hell out? And that's okay. Gosh, I'm just really proud of you. And so you ultimately made that decision. I'm glad you mentioned therapy, I'm beginning to believe that a life by design is therapy plus coaching, right therapy plus coaching, and maybe some RTT thrown in there. Right. So

Tammy Goodman: 29:00

yeah, and but that's, that's one thing that's nice I love about modern technology in the modern era, is that you can build it, you can build that ala carte menu to what you need, you know, like, I don't necessarily want to go to therapy right now. I'm really happy with what I'm doing. But tomorrow that might change and that's okay. You know, and, and I've had that conversation with my son. I think he went through some tough times after we were separated. And, you know, I'm like, people don't treat mental health. Like if you have a cold, you go to the doctor, the urgent care, if you have something in your brain that is bothering you, go get go talk to someone you know, and like, just normalizing that is so much better than it used to be. And of course, then COVID kit and the whole mental practice, you know, mental health practices have exploded. But thank

Nicoa: 29:51

goodness, I mean, that's the gift of COVID. Right? I think we're now talking about it, we're bringing things to light. And we're empowering people because they had to become empowered, because they were stuck in their houses. And they were like, Well, finally, hopefully, and not all of them, sadly. But many people began to look in the mirror and say wait a minute, what do I want? How am I going to get helped get it because I'm going out saying here in the house. So let's fast forward then let's go to you made the jump now. I was so proud of you. You kind of like one of my favorite highlighting clients because you ultimately got the strength to recognize that you know, with all due respect to one of our favorite companies in the world, Thermo Fisher Scientific we love you. You served us both. Well, Anthony, it really is and you grew until there wasn't the opportunity that you needed at that point. So you said hey, let me go find something new and guess what didn't they come find you?

Tammy Goodman: 30:47

They came found me yeah. Fila, so as did my guy, right? I mean, so yes, things happen for a reason. But yeah, so as you know, as I was progressing through thermo and one of the and I will say one of the great things about large companies is if you want to grow, it's a great place to go. Because there's so much opportunity because when you get tired of this thing over here, you can go over here. And then you can go over here. And at the same time, you're not losing your tenure, you're not losing your experience with golden handcuffs as you call them, but you know, but, but so it was a great experience, because like, every four years, I was moving to a different role and learning some new aspects of the business, I was, you know, continuing to grow. I've worked with some amazing people who were incredible role models for me. You know, and then there's a dark side to the large companies, too, that we can talk a little bit about, whatever.

Nicoa: 31:45

I learned how to play it, and every corporation has a different game. And unless you accept that game, you will suffer. So you played the game really well until the game no longer serves you. So?

Tammy Goodman: 31:56

Yeah, because I really felt like and again, at that age level, like we're kind of talking about earlier, I had more to give, you know, I wasn't giving in my marriage anymore. I wasn't giving like, like, again, my son, I wasn't proactive, you know, you reach a point with your kids, where you're more like a guardrail than you are, you know, the driver, right? Yes. Right. Yeah. And so I was like, guard railing at that point. And so I had more to give. And I couldn't take that next level at thermo, like not without pushing my boss into in front of a bus, which I was like. And he was really nice. Yeah. I think, you know, I was always open and honest with them, I want your job, this is what I want to do. And I think this is an important point two, and it's around not burning your bridges. But I mean, I was always very honest with my managers and my teams. And, you know, he knew I wanted to go that direction. So when I did have this opportunity, it wasn't a surprise, there was no, like, Oh, my God, like we didn't even know you wanted that. Like, it wasn't a surprise that I had this opportunity, and I was going to take it. And so left under very good terms, I still stay in touch with a lot of that team, you know, I could go back. And so the important

Nicoa: 33:06

message, that's really important, ask for what you want, and ask often collaborate shoulder to shoulder with your leadership with your teams. And for those of you who are going, Oh, I could never do that with my leader, then go find a different leader. Meaning go tell somebody else in the company, if you can't get that support, and that collaboration with that current leader, work around them. This is level three energy, you know, I'm gonna win. And I hope everybody here does too. It's a two way street. But you've got to ask for what you want. And if they can't provide that to you Don't be a victim to it, go take action, or in our case, and I just want to reiterate this, when you came to me, there was a part of you that was kind of like I'm done. Oh, yeah, I'm burped. And what I always say to my clients who come to me who were ready to make that jump, say, let's find the contentment here. And simultaneously, we will attract that next opportunity, whether it be inside the company, or external. And you did that beautifully. And you asked for what you want. And we gave them a chance, you know, and then because you let go of the attachment that thermo was going to provide, you sat back and that's when pace popped in. So you got the phone call, how does that feel? Tell us a little bit about that transition.

Tammy Goodman: 34:27

And he was totally around areas, because, you know, so I had worked with the CEO of pace at thermo, several years ago, another great example of don't burn your bridges, you know, and just do what you do well, and you will be recognized for it, I think. And I was always one that put my hand up, you know, like, oh, that's new, let's do that. You didn't Oh, what you're bringing in bein to do some, you know, project? Let me do it. You know, let me you know, and, but so I definitely, but that's how I got to know him through a big ugly project we had to do and you know, those are the kinds of them. And we, you know, worked really well together. But then he went on to his assignment did my thing. And he reached out to me through LinkedIn, like, Hey, how's it going? And I was telling, but I'm like, Oh, yes. Eric reached out to me. And he's like, Oh, he wants something. And I'm like, No, he just wants to say, Hi. We get on the phone, we try to hit like talking and catching up. And then I'm like, so is there a reason you reached out to me? And he's like, Well, yeah. This so and they were building. The organization didn't have any commercial operations, which is my forte or my area of expertise. And that was what I had wanted was to build my own commercial ops team and stand it up for an organization I've always had in the back of my mind. and that I would do these things like, these are the things I want to do to build my experience. And, like, we're gonna build this team, and we need someone to lead it, and you're the one. And you know, we would like to talk to you. And I want you to talk to the division, you know, the sales VP wasn't VP, he was some I can't remember the title. But anyway, but anyways, and he and I immediately clicked. And so the rest is history. And I went in with pace. And, you know, unfortunately, or fortunately, it was short lived only because I made yet another life changing decision. And some of that I think was a little bit kind of like that menopause driven woman a little bit, but was like, I like this, but I want to go further. I want to help more businesses, I want to help small business. I want help midsize businesses, like I see what they're going through at the size they are. And I'm like, we need to get ahead of this in the business industry. Like we need to help businesses get a better understanding of how to run business. That sounds kind of dorky, but

Nicoa: 36:59

I like dorky and you know what I liked about your dorky is that you said it's always been in the back of my mind. I've always held this thought so everybody pause what's in the back of your mind? Because if you're sitting there thinking, yeah, I really like to do this, I'd really like to be able to see what would happen if, because that's where your passion is, that's really your purpose. So you you've been listening for a long time and giving yourself permission to not only take care of you and take naps and do all the self care. But giving yourself permission to also explore a career path that's that's calling you. It really is. Not only did you go help pace, knock it out of the park, you actually then have recently decided to do what jump?

Tammy Goodman: 37:45

Yes, I don't. But I did it. I didn't do it. Suddenly, actually, I probably had one of the world's longest transitions, because the CIA told them on April 1 of this year, and my last day was July 14, so but I kind of figured, and, and so um, I plan to do sabbatical, you know, like, as a part of this as I wanted to take some time just to be me and kind of see what me is after a long time. You know, like, who am I now? Like, do I like sleeping till seven? Do I like eating at my computer? Or whatever? You know? Do I like going for a bike ride at two o'clock? Or at 9am? I don't know. I mean, I've never had the opportunity to try these things. You created

Nicoa: 38:24

space. And these are all the questions I was asking you back in 2018. Well, what do you want? What do you want your day to be like? Do you want to wake up and stay in the bed for three hours? Or do you want to get up and go work out? I love this so much. And too many of my clients are coming to me and saying, Well, I finally left this job. And I'm starting on Monday and today's Friday. I'm like, Oh my god. Two days is not enough to take a break. So this sabbatical tell us more like how's it going? And how long will you be on sabbatical?

Tammy Goodman: 38:57

Well, so my goal was, with it being July, I thought I'd be done a little bit sooner than I was. But you know, again, I was kind of like I told pace, I said, Well, I'm not really, it's not like I have to get another job. So I'll gladly work this out, however you want to do it. And actually, I'm still contracting with them, which has been lovely because it flows a little bit of passion, but it's on my terms. There's you know, and I get to work on projects, which is my passion and you know, very focused one thing instead of conference calls all day and then working at night, because that's the only time you get work done. But But anyways, this sabbatical is really like I plan for the end of the year just taken. This time. I'm building my own consulting business and we'll talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, but I didn't have I'm just savoring it. Like I built my website was so fun just to do it. Take my time. I heard her business cards and I put a QR code on it because I could because it was fun. And think about it. You know and I even got just because of always want to do it. I got a laser engraved Yeti. Oh, oh, we're Bucha

Nicoa: 40:02

our products, our merch so let me see it and tell everybody the name of your beautiful Cadair salting, customer flow consulting and I'm showing off my coffee with your coffee with Nico a podcast to fake it.

Tammy Goodman: 40:18

I only this isn't a freebie. This is mine. This is my desk so I can mark it while I'm on conference calls.

Nicoa: 40:26

I did that too. Here's the real gently. This is coffee with Nicola. Oh, this yes for me. I know. Yeah. sabbatical time. What are you learning about yourself during this sabbatical so far? I mean, it's already October. I'm thinking yeah.

Tammy Goodman: 40:41

I know. Well, you know, it's really funny because like we saw each other right before I made the official line or right after And then a couple of weeks later, you had texted me and you were checking in and I remember going, Wow. I mean, because I felt really lost for the first month. I mean, like, oh my god, the training wheels are off and what am I do? Who am I? Like, I mean, I kind of felt like I had this little meltdown. That's normal, you know, either way.

Nicoa: 41:09

It's almost like you have the abundance of choice. Once you make a decision like this, and it can be so paralyzing. I can remember lying in the bed after quitting my job and thinking, what am I? What am I supposed to be doing? Like, I had no clue. Even though I had a brain full of ideas and things I wanted to do. I didn't even know where to start. I bet that was overwhelming in a way. It is

Tammy Goodman: 41:33

for sure. In a good way, but it is. And I don't remember the lady you just recently interviewed who was talking about she actually was like, physically sick. You know, she gave herself what a month. I can't remember her name. Now forget. She's wonderful. But yeah, we will. Or I can look it up. But anyway. But I mean, I almost was like that. I'm like, like, I'm just exhausted yet again. I'm exhausted. Like,

Nicoa: 41:59

yeah, that's interesting. Yet again. Why do you think that is? Why do you think we still find ourselves in that energetic fatigue? I mean, I have some thoughts.

Tammy Goodman: 42:12

In life, I mean, I think things ebb and flow to, like, even our, you know, control over our life by design or whatever, we have good days, we have bad days, or we have good weeks, we have bad weeks. And I think that there's just some, you know, and we're not perfect at it, we're still learning, we're going to learn all our lives, how to manage ourselves. That's my theory.

Nicoa: 42:34

That's a good theory. And we are it's almost like the the cycles of our body clock to like, you're talking about napping, and you know, the the circadian rhythms of the planet. I think it's the same with existence, you know, and, and I also believe that we're so caught up and trying to define the box that we're supposed to be and even if it's a big ass box that that death falls flat, you know, it doesn't have to be restrictive box. But we're always like, what am I supposed to do next? Like what needs me? And, you know, that can be overwhelming. And if we can slow it down and just take our time. That's why I love the sabbatical. So much, you know, slowing it down, and just asking the questions that will hopefully renew and restore. So are you feeling more restoration and renewal as a result? Or is it still been busy, busy mind?

Tammy Goodman: 43:28

Yeah, as I progress through, it's better. But sometimes, it's still like, I have to force it. If I've accent like, like, How weird is that, that you have to, like, force it, but so like, even today, you know, again, as like, as I mentioned earlier, have a busy week. And I'm like, Well, I really need to, like stay in work this afternoon. But it's a beautiful day, and I haven't written my bikes and satin Sunday, like, I'm gonna go ride. You know, like, I still have to, like, force it some days and say, It's okay. You know, it's, and just reteach yourself that it's okay to slow down. And, and I think even unfortunately, I think about this a lot, because I actually worry for the next generation coming in too, because, like, if you scroll, whatever, Instagram, Facebook, everybody's busy. You know, and, and especially because I, I lean into the fitness world a little bit. They're all like showing these videos where I get up at 5am and I go run and then I go to the gym, and then I work all day and then I prepare meal and I don't and I'm like, ya know, you people are gonna be so tired. I worry so much.

Nicoa: 44:31

For this generation, remember my interview with the anti fitness project, Dominique Geary I read all her pages. Yeah, he is amazing. And even lately, it's interesting that you bring that up, because I think about my kids, I think you don't need to worry. I think that's a snapshot. And our kids actually do know the truth about what they're watching. Not Not everybody is conscious enough to know. But most of this generation actually does get it. And they do recognize that it's their life by design. Because what the better is better. It is better. And I don't know, even yesterday, to your point about, oh, I'm really having fun doing my website, or should I be outside? There's the should, you know, it's sunshiny. I do that all the time. I look out at this creek and I think well, I've got these kayaks. I got this boat. Why am I in my office on the computer? And even yesterday was my day off. I scheduled an interview with somebody and then I also worked on scheduling lumely for the podcast post. So I did say to John, he came in to check on me and I was like, Well, I really want to be reading that book right there. But I also really want to be scheduling. I really want to do this and I said I've I actually love both.

Tammy Goodman: 45:46

Yeah, well that's what I'm trying to refund, I guess or get back is I guess, like a renewed love for what I'm doing. Because I remember another conversation I had with you and this was just a quick like 30 minute catch up, but I made a comment about like, I really feel burned out and you're like, Fine, then you're burned out. What are you gonna do about it? Like it is. Okay, what are you doing?

Nicoa: 46:11

My poor husband hears the same thing. Okay, yeah, like that don't do it anymore. It's like, my arm hurts every time I move it like this. And I'm like, Well, don't move it like that. Yeah,

Tammy Goodman: 46:22

I remember my center that was little like, My eye hurts. And he's like, rub it and like stop revenue. Right?

Nicoa: 46:27

Exactly. That's it, y'all. It's as simple as we allow it to be. It's as simple as we allow it to be because we're the ones creating our reality. We're the ones having the thought. There is no right or wrong, there is no good or bad, you get to decide what it's going to be so. So I decided to keep scheduling. And then I made a bunch of pot stickers for dinner and call it a day.

Tammy Goodman: 46:52

That sounds good. It looks good. Whatever,

Nicoa: 46:54

you know, oh my gosh, yeah.

Tammy Goodman: 46:56

So yeah, it's about refunding all the fun in it, you know, and, and so that's of just taking it easy and doing good stuff. And, like, last Wednesday, we had a friend in town, we don't get to see very often. And you know, we all went out for a bike ride together, we were out there. And I'm like, It's Wednesday afternoon, and I'm riding bikes.

Nicoa: 47:15

I will never forget that I was walking once on a Tuesday morning at 9am towards the Starbucks. And I remember thinking, it's sunny out, I'm walking outside, and I got my Starbucks and there were so many people. And I thought to myself, are there that means you work? Yeah. Are there that many doctor's appointments today, what in the world, and that's when those blinders came off. And I'm just so happy that your blinders came off, your blinders came off, you were living this life, and you were going and going and going, and you finally gave yourself the ability and permission to take those blinders off. And I'm just so excited to see what's going to happen next for you. Tell us a little bit about this new business model, and share it with the world because you're gonna launch it in the first of the year, and, and everybody's gonna want to know about it, I'm confident.

Tammy Goodman: 48:04

Well, so what I'm building is again, called customer flow consulting, which there's a lot of hidden meaning in the flow there. That word flow when

Nicoa: 48:14

I saw it, and your logo is perfect. So tell us about the logo and why you chose that it looks like a river. Yeah, I don't

Tammy Goodman: 48:22

know. So first of all, like I took a page from Nikolas book and because I'm like, I need to get a logo designed, and I'm not a graphic design artist I could do this will be painful. So I'm gonna try Upwork. And it was a great experience, like you go on, and I'm like, I need a logo. And there's all these people and you can read about them. And, and I'm like, it was the best experience ever. The lady was so nice. And she was so efficient. She offered me like six different options. But anyway, I digress. But it was just

Nicoa: 48:51

a thing for people starting their own businesses. Let's do it. Yeah,

Tammy Goodman: 48:54

I mean, it was great. And there's so many services you can get on there, I might be on there one day, who knows, like if I need visitors, because, you know, but anyway. So the logo is actually like a running river, you know, flowing through the, because again, it's all about flow. And I love the outdoors. So I want something outdoorsy as well. But for me, like the the name of that company with flow has a lot of meaning. Because it's, that's what I'm trying to do in my personal life is fine. My flow, you know, like, and I know where my flow is, which is when I'm working with CRM systems, and when I'm making businesses run better, so and when I get in there, and I'm like working on a, on a setup or in the tools, working on them, like Time just flies, you know, like, Oh, where'd that our Go? How'd that happen? You know, and and I'm just and then when it's done, and you'd like see it working? You're like Yes. And then, you know, you're like teaching the organizations to use their tools. And they're like, oh, this was great. And so just a backup, because I didn't fully define but so my focus is on CRM system. So customer relationship management systems, which, you know, for companies who have used them before, they think Salesforce was like kind of 800 pound gorilla. I have over 20 years experience with Salesforce. And my last job at thermo was actually standing up in Salesforce for 4000 global users. So it was a big project. But I really am on kind of the business side of things, because what I see a lot in we alluded to this earlier, is a lot of businesses just like to have ideas. They're brilliant in what they're doing. And you say it yourself, you've outsourced the things you're not good at or you don't like to do. Well, you know, I see so many businesses like I know I need a CRM and they either don't know how to get it put in so there might Get that starting point, or they've put it in, but they're like, I'm paying $1,000 per user per year. And I'm using it as a Rolodex. Yeah, there's so much more it can do I love modern technology, there's so much it can do, like, just help you manage your clients helped you manage from that lead all the way through to that sale. Further into project management, there's just, it's really powerful. And again, so many businesses, they just need a little help, you know, and, and I'll give you a good example, because one of the things that I wanted to do on my sabbatical as I'm actually helping my son, who runs his own business, stand up a CRM, and so you know, but and he's very small, and so CRMs are for everybody. And it's really, it's super fun. Because just to see him, he told me, he's spending like three to five hours a week manually sending texts and emails to people to remind them that their appointments coming up, he runs a landscaping business. That's right. And, and I'm like, why?

Nicoa: 51:57

No, so the CRM,

Tammy Goodman: 52:01

looking at, it's only audit, like, automates all that for him. So, you know, and he's like, I can't believe this, I'm gonna get like, five hours of my week back that I can go get more business so I can pay by people, I can hire more people, you know, and I can do what I love to do. And so it's, you know, they're just amazing and powerful. And, you know, even beyond CRMs, there's so many productivity tools out there today. And that's definitely kind of my arena.

Nicoa: 52:30

Yeah, well, you found your sweet spot, you know, your expertise, that you are a subject matter expert, and there is a stage in life, where if if you have something like that under your belt, that you could turn it into its standalone business. So I encourage people to recognize I'm not telling everybody to quit their jobs. But you know, but you have ultimately evolved into this ability, with your background, to offer a service that is absolutely needed. And I love that you gave the example of your son's business, because it's from small businesses to the largest businesses, you can be that resource for them. And, you know, integrating your life into it with the imagery. And literally the Word Flow. That's really beautiful. I mean, when you talk about losing time, and, and being so ecstatic when it's implemented, that's how I feel right this minute, right this minute? Because

Tammy Goodman: 53:25

that's what you do every flow. Yeah. So yeah, and again, it's really important to find, I think, and you can find it in your day to day work. It's not like I worked at thermo and pace and hated every minute of it, because I actually loved it. And that's a choice. You know, we talk about that a lot, you talk a lot, but are

Nicoa: 53:46

you at choice, and you integrated flow as part of the beginning work we did, by doing things like putting your yoga mat out behind the desk, or whatever, you know, having taking your meeting outside, right? Spending more time with the dogs outside versus just sitting at the desk and eating. So you can integrate flow. And when you're ready to integrate a CRM system in flow, then you're gonna call

Tammy Goodman: 54:12

hopefully, yeah, so the website will go live in January. And it's like I said, I'm not turning away opportunities now. But I'm just, you know, really trying to work on the business and set up a lot of the fundamentals, but also just take that time to kind of explore myself and, and be vulnerable, like we are today. And, you know, just, yeah, enjoy it. It's enjoyable time of year. I'm excited to have the holidays coming without like the madness of budget season and all that stuff that normally is going on right now.

Nicoa: 54:47

You know, I think it's important. So one of the things that you mentioned briefly is your concern for the future of our youth. And you taking this step and taking this action to self sustain and self serve the world is actually a really critical role model for them. Because we're going to have to break down some of these bigger systems that are totally overwhelmed by budgets, budget, seasons, and and, you know, stakeholder and shareholder value. It's time to break some of those systems up a bit. And I think that the as an HR professional, recovering corporate exec and recovering, right. If I were to to give advice to those executives today, I'd be like, it's time to break it up, do it differently. start treating your organization as if it is made up of consultants, right. So these free agents, that free agent dialog has been around for decades, but treating it in a different formula. And that might mean stop being publicly traded. You know, that might mean I mean, I mean, GE just broke it all up in order to survive and to do it in the in, in partnership with its people. You know, I mean, some people may not believe that but I really admire the way in which the company had to redirect to sustain some sort of, you know, resemblance of, of a business. And it just, it broke it up. And so you're breaking up your life into one that is aligned to your values, and what matters most to you. And I'm just so grateful that you were willing to share your vulnerability, your insights into your coaching partnership with me, is there anything else you'd like to share about your experience getting coaching or this life by design? Before we wrap up?

Tammy Goodman: 56:34

Well, I think, you know, I mean, gosh, I have a whole page notes. The whole thing. Yeah, I want to, I want to hear, that's the big thing, like just kind of going back to like, even some of the corporate life, because it is a very good way to make make a living. And, you know, but it's so interesting, because you're talking about like HR, but, you know, being a leader for the last several years, I have, like, some theories around like the fact that the old school review process doesn't serve us anymore. You know, and just things that happen in that world, like to your comment about, like, time to break it up. And I love that, like you got a contract with Pfizer because they tend to hire like the corn fairies. And the big guy is, you know, in the fact that they got a hit states, little old Nicoa from North Carolina, are not little by any means. But you know, that they got like, it's they're not just filling the formula, like they're looking for something authentic, something that's different, is wonderful, because that is the path we're gonna have to take, you're gonna have to get creative to stand out your gut be. You know, authentic, I think is a big cut. It's a buzz is becoming a buzzword, but it is how do you become, because like when leading teams is not easy, and I always looked at my role as a leader, like to make life better for the people that worked for me, you know, be like, this is where I go to, like, for example, I had a couple people over the years that, you know, came review time, and they're like, I deserve a big fat raise, because I work 24/7. And I'm

Nicoa: 58:14

not gonna validate that, right? That's not working more doesn't make you more successful.

Tammy Goodman: 58:21

Well, and that was always the conversation I've had, I'm like, Yeah, but I want you to be happy in your personal life, so that when you work, you're productive. And if you have to work 24/7, then I'm not doing my job to help you understand what's causing that. And, you know, like, I always, always try, like, more is not better, right. And I think that's applicable across all of life, like, just did a bang that maybe this is some that comes with age too. But like, I always joke about being like, if you're out doing some yard work, or like, let's say construction project, or whatever little home project, you're like, my joke is always be smarter than the piece of wood. But, you know, it's like, it's work smarter, not harder. I think, dense. Yeah, companies, we got to look at how to do that, like, how do I be efficient, that's what I'm put into this space. And like even Outsourcing Things, or, again, in your personal life, and I've worked with some interesting people over the years, I had a young lady, intern, Liz, right, like probably 2018. She was amazing. But she every minute of her life planned out for the next I don't know how long. So my parting advice to her was leave a little space for things, the surprises because honestly, I didn't plan any of the careers that I had in at saremo or anything. Like I was just like, Oh, that looks like fun. And I'd go volunteer, and, you know, or make friends with the person who had that job and help them. You know, like, way back when iPads were coming out. And they became popular in business, like, you know, it was totally wasn't my job, but I'm like, I want to launch iPads for our sales team. You know, and and you've had other people have talked about that, too, but it is just so you know, again, like thinking about messaging for for people out there is yeah, it's just being open to try new things, but also being open, raise your hand

Nicoa: 1:00:21

and what's fulfilling for you? It sounds to me like you've really given you've, you probably I mean, you've had a life by design the whole time, right? Everybody always does, because you have a belief system and an interpretation of what life is supposed to look like, and what you ultimately came to and you were already doing, it was going where you were led that you liked, like what was fun. What felt good? Yeah. And you had you kept doing that until you ran up against something that wasn't It's not feeling good. So that's just a messaging system. Right? It's just a messaging system that says, Oh, I don't feel good. I don't like doing this. Or I'm tired. I'm ready to do something else. So okay, great. Right? Burnout. Great. What are you gonna do about it? Right? So that's all. Practice and, you know, leave a little space for the surprises. I love that so much. I wrote it down when you just

Tammy Goodman: 1:01:12

said it. I'm like, because I got Yeah,

Nicoa: 1:01:15

you get what? I'm gonna put it on your posts. Because leave a little space for the surprises means? Where are you able to even be spontaneous in life? And what have you, you can't manifest a life, if you haven't created space for it to come to you. They used to literally say, like, if you wanted more money, put money in your in your wallet. And also make sure that you have like deposit slips around you. I know that sounds silly. But I always write thank you on my bills, like, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I like a good bill, because it's enabling my life by design, or have empty hangers in your closet, if you're ready for some new clothes. So go take out the old clothes that you're never wearing and leave space. So you can travel

Tammy Goodman: 1:01:57

that would be too dangerous.

Nicoa: 1:01:59

I know. Yeah. I'm trying to not buy so many clothes. I

Tammy Goodman: 1:02:03

know me too. Much. I know, I've missed shoes or my issue. But. But even like, I think about well, you and I were working together was also when both of us were falling in love. And right. You know, we both had to make space in our lives to receive that, you know, and in my joke is always that like, I am 100% certain that he was put in my path by whatever powers that be. And the funny thing is, I always remember that. So he actually emailed me to ask me out, because we met through an event, we didn't even really talk at this event, but we met. And I call my best friend. And I'm like, oh my god, I got asked out on a date. And I'm like, six years old, I didn't think anybody's gonna want to date a 46 year old woman. And she's like, well, what are you gonna say? I'm like, I'm gonna say yes, of course. Like, there was never any doubt in my mind that I was going to say anything other than yes.

Nicoa: 1:03:03

Because you do, and you'd been dreaming of that future life with somebody. And here he came. I'm about to post a, it'll be a few weeks. But I'm about to post an espresso shot on anticipation. And not only do we have to be open to receive, but we have to anticipate what we want to receive. And I remember not being surprised at all that John had texted me that this person had shown up in my life, and I used to go to bed at night and look at that pillow to my rights. I wonder who it's going to be? I wonder who's like, I can't wait, I'm gonna roll over. And I still roll over in the mornings. And I see his sweet face. And I think, Oh, I got what I wanted. Like, he's beautiful. And I know you feel the same way. And, and yet, let me be clear, that honeymoon fades. And I found that I was giving a lot of my space had been taken up by us. And about me and him. And I had to also reflect and adapt and adjust, you know, to three years in, and it's only been three and a half since we got married four and a half together. I remember thinking, wait, wait, wait, wait, who am I in this relation? I had to come back to me again. So it's constant. I don't know, if you experienced anything like that. You know, are you like, wait, wait, wait, who am I again? And this relationship is not just about us? Yeah, hey,

Tammy Goodman: 1:04:23

yeah, you have to grow together, you know, you have to be individuals who grow together. Right? So you know, and, and that is the hard thing. Like even again, like sabbatical, like, who am I and my future state and where do I want to go? And, and that's even as a change process. Fortunately, he's incredibly supportive. Actually, I look at him and I think, well, he, like a lot of his friends are entrepreneurs. So he must attract entrepreneurial energy. And I'm just one of

Nicoa: 1:04:50

Oh, I love that so much. That's exactly right. Because we attract where we are vibrationally. And it took you a hot minute to get there. But you're there right on time. Right? Of course you have but as a support and a champion and a role model for you to grow this business.

Tammy Goodman: 1:05:06

Yeah, for sure. So sure.

Nicoa: 1:05:10

Well, Tammy, look at us. It's been over an hour and it just sped by.

Tammy Goodman: 1:05:14

Can nobody do take a coffee break? I

Nicoa: 1:05:17

don't do that anymore. Poor Tom, the editor Tom, I'm sorry, I

Tammy Goodman: 1:05:20

do they just stick it in.

Nicoa: 1:05:23

Now, like the little, the little ad or something, I'm just oh my gosh, I couldn't it just was messing up the flow. It was messing up the flow. So let me I'm gonna ask you one more. Well, I want to ask you two more questions. The first question I want to ask is, why did you say being a guest on this podcast was a goal of yours?

Tammy Goodman: 1:05:45

So yes, I did and so part Part of like, this whole life change, even from when I left my relationship before is being uncomfortable, like I've one thing I've learned in life for sure is that change is good. It may not feel good in the minute, but I've even seen it with people, like they get fired from their jobs, and they're like, Oh, my God, and then you talk to a month later is like, this is freaking fabulous. You know, like, my heart disease went away, or I love not having to answer my phone. But I think, you know, change is always there for a reason, and doesn't always feel good in the minute. But when you reflect back, and it might be a month, it might be a year might be years, it happens for a reason, and it's a path. But so part of what I've been doing is challenging myself to be, you know, to do different things to step out of my comfort zone. And so one of my things was because I'm generally a pretty, like, keep my emotions to myself and keep my vulnerabilities, you know, like, I'm gonna do this, this is gonna be my and it was never a theatre person it either like

Nicoa: 1:06:57

I hope I've made you duly uncomfortable.

Tammy Goodman: 1:07:01

This has been like another conversation. We're just lacking a bottle of wine or something. But well, the last

Nicoa: 1:07:09

question, you know, my favorite one that I ask all of my coaching clients at the end of their session, what is the one thing that you want to celebrate the most about your life by design, I'll switch it up a little about your life by design.

Tammy Goodman: 1:07:23

And I think it is that I'm, I'm, you know, just trying new things. I'm out there. You know, sometimes when I'm out there, like riding my bike, or even like talking to you now I'm like, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. You No,

Nicoa: 1:07:38

I'm reading that through that you're doing it. I mean, you really are amazing. And I feel really honored to not just be your colleague, your your coach, but to be your friend. And you and I are going to continue to be friends. And as as you know, my daughter is about to the other big change and move up to UNC Asheville in 2024. And so now that's going to be a new connection for the for the two of us, and I'm really honored to be a part of your world. So thank you for being

Tammy Goodman: 1:08:06

I feel the same Nicoa Thank you. I

Nicoa: 1:08:09

love you and I only expect great things coming. We'll have to do this again in a year. How about that? Sounds

Tammy Goodman: 1:08:16

good. Awesome.

Nicoa: 1:08:17

I'll talk to you later. Love you. Bye.

Jennifer Gardner: 1:08:23

Thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with Nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with Nicoa and check out our website Coffee with nicoa.com and that's Nicoa N I CoA. We look forward to talking with you soon. And enjoy your coffee between now and then