S2 EP37: DEVON KEELER

Nicoa has the pure delight of interviewing the daughter of our very first Coffee With Nicoa guest Caroline Keeler S1 Ep2 - the delightful Devon Keeler! They discuss Devon's life by design, including her upbringing in Michigan and the US Virgin Islands, her career shift from biology to clinical research and her all around personal growth journey. Devon emphasizes the importance of balancing intuition and logic, especially after her aunt's passing, which influenced her career choice in oncology. She reflects on the significance of self-worth, finding joy, and the value of being open to new experiences. This conversation captures the importance of aligning actions with personal values and the power of self-reflection in shaping one's authentic LIFE BY DESIGN!

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Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:00

Nicoa, grab your coffee and join me, Nicoa, for a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths, and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Okay, Hey everybody, welcome to Coffee with Nicoa. I've got someone that is a superstar in the world that I have no idea what she's done in her life, what we're going to talk about, but I know that she's got a lot of people that love her. So I would like to welcome Devin Keeler to the podcast today. Hey,

DEVON KEELER: 0:43

Nicoa, thank you so much for having me. I, to be honest, have been really excited about this, even though it kind of came together super last minute. Finally, after the like, three times we've tried to do this, you know, I

Nicoa Coach: 0:54

was laughing. I looked back at the original email you were texting with me. You're like, what do you want to talk about? I was like, Did I not send you an email? With, oh my god, do you know it's been May of 2023, and so right now we're talking in October of 2024 that's when I originally invited you. So that's hilarious. It took us completely different.

DEVON KEELER: 1:17

I know I was in I was gonna say, like total 180 from the initial, first time we tried to do it, and then even from so I feel like we tried to set it up when I was in Hawaii over the summer, and then that kind of fell through and everything. And yeah. So, I mean, I'm in a different city now. I've got new things going on with my job, yeah. So it's just all the changes, but it happened when it was meant to happen.

Nicoa Coach: 1:43

Absolutely. I believe in divine timing, and I and I love that you have made so many life changes, because I think that was the original reason that both your mother and, quote, unquote, Aunt Laura, both encouraged me to talk with you. So for those listening, maybe those of you who may have not listened to all of the podcast episodes yet, which was really unbelievable, I can't believe you haven't, but so let me just reference real quick, and then I'll give you a hard time. Episode season one. Episode Two is your mother, Caroline Keeler, who we had a phenomenal conversation about her work and her life and all of the the twists and turns and decision making that she made over her decades and most proudly having you and then your aunt Laura, had a lot of the traumas and dramas that happened in her life, and a lot of insights and encouragement for People going through hard times, especially around the concepts of addiction. So Caroline's episode, if anybody needs to pause first, put this in context, is season one episode two, and law Solomon's is season one, episode 15. So make note, everybody, they have, they are two of the wonderful female role models in your life, they

DEVON KEELER: 3:02

most certainly are. And I think it's kind of funny, I was actually, you know, my head was going through all these ideas last night as I was, like, all the things that, you know, I hope come up, or like, whatever we can talk about. And one of them most certainly was kind of that, like, I feel like a lot of the big people that I look up to in my life are women and very strong, very independent, very driven women. And I'm like, you know, got it from somewhere

Nicoa Coach: 3:26

you definitely did. And they are really phenomenal women that I'm really honored to be friends with, too. And so why don't we just talk a little bit about who you are and maybe give us a quick little context of your life, and then I want to reflect back on some of those past twists and turns that you've had that have helped you get to where you are today. So quick overview, how about that?

DEVON KEELER: 3:48

Yeah, right, the cliff notes, and

Nicoa Coach: 3:53

then we'll dive deep.

DEVON KEELER: 3:56

Um, I so, I guess. Where did it all started. I was born in Michigan, so, you know, grew up kind of a northern kid, and my mom and I moved to the Virgin Islands also when I was, like, three and a half or four, or something like that. Lived there for a few years. And I really feel like that time, especially, you know, like child development and that kind of thing really has, I see a lot of the things that are important to who I am now stemming from the time that we spent there. And, yeah, it was also interesting, as I was in Hawaii recently that I, like, noticed a lot of that coming back up, kind of that island life and all of that. And I was like, you know, these are the parts of me that I love the most kind of came from that, and, like, the bits of my personality and all of that. So I think that's sort of like a theme, you know, I'm still at heart sort of this, like feral little island kid running around just doing whatever she wants.

Nicoa Coach: 4:55

I love that, and being in Wilmington helped to I'm sure so did you. Did you live long? And. Wilmington dollars. Just come back when your mom was here. Yeah,

DEVON KEELER: 5:03

so I actually moved to Wilmington first. But so the geography story here was that we lived in in the Virgin Islands for a little while, then moved back to Michigan for, like, elementary High School, and then I moved to Wilmington when I went to college. So super into archeology. Really thought that I was going to, you know, go into academia, like run my own research lab. I was pretty, pretty hardcore that that's what I wanted to do with my career. So we'll, we'll talk about that a little bit when we get into kind of the life changes and stuff, and how that is very much not where I'm at now, right? But so, you know, kind of had that idea in my head, and that really drove a lot of my sort of early career decision making. And then after I moved to Wilmington, mom moved there, I think two years after I did a year, a year or two. I can't remember the exact timing, yeah, but so then we were both in Wilmington for about I was there for 13 years, so she was there for a little bit. Okay, so

Nicoa Coach: 6:10

you got your beach life here as well, and then that island life, even though we we, you know, we got bridges. But so go back though and talk a little. Let's go ahead and talk about those, those twists and turns and and I forgot to give you shit that you had not listened to the entire episodes of your quote, unquote aunt Laura or your mother's I should just stop the interview right now. You are totally in violation of podcast rules,

DEVON KEELER: 6:42

I know. And even with how many times that we like, tried to get this started, and I still never,

Nicoa Coach: 6:49

so everybody, this is a really, this is a highlight that you know, obviously the podcast is so good

DEVON KEELER: 6:58

that couldn't religiously listen to the things that you posted on Instagram when you did when coffee with the cos on Instagram, it was on Sunday mornings. I used to listen to it every like, it was like, Okay, it's up, like, I gotta go see it and mom and do it together and like, talk about the things that you said together afterwards. So I did go through a phase of being a very committed listener.

Nicoa Coach: 7:24

I remember that, yeah, your mom would text me afterwards and tell me that y'all had shared coffee and listen, that made me feel really happy that y'all did that. Thank you.

DEVON KEELER: 7:34

So I'm not, you know, I did a little bit of homework before this, but not a whole lot.

Nicoa Coach: 7:40

I know me either. I don't even think I'm following you on Instagram. Sorry.

DEVON KEELER: 7:47

It's not that interesting these days.

Nicoa Coach: 7:50

I must have though I saw something on your story the other day I got confused as to where you were. So, you know, so okay, but you know, I'm all over the place too. So before we go back to some of those pivots and turns, I want to just highlight that you currently work for a company. I don't know if you knew this, but I used to work for Thermo Fisher.

DEVON KEELER: 8:08

I did know that, yep, ah,

Nicoa Coach: 8:11

now we can, that's right. So you're, you were, you're, you were with PPD. Here is that right before moving to Durham, yeah. So still,

DEVON KEELER: 8:22

because PPD got acquired by Thermo Fisher, like it's still, it's still kind of technically PPD, they just renamed it the clinical research group within Thermo Fisher. So we're still, you know, kind of going through a lot of, like, the transition stuff and kind of merging with their policies and all of that.

Nicoa Coach: 9:28

Yeah, integrations take a long time. That was my main role. There was a lot of mergers and acquisitions. So yeah, I feel for you, it does take. So, yeah, so yes. So you work for Thermo Fisher. Okay, so that's part of the integration. I can't stop wearing my HR hat.

DEVON KEELER: 9:48

I know, I know, smash me on the branding.

Nicoa Coach: 9:53

Well, when I got there, we actually changed the branding. It had been in a company for 50 years with all of the acquired companies all across the globe that had never branded. So my job, when not mine, but our team's job, was to really fully integrate that, that brand. And that was one of the hardest things that you can ever do. It is so hard for people to let go their original brand. Yeah, tell me about that. Yeah. Tell me how that's going.

DEVON KEELER: 10:19

Well, I feel like, for me, it's not a huge deal, because I technically joined PPD after the acquisition happened, so they were already in the face of kind of like turning things over, and as much as, like, I'd heard things about, like, historic PPD, that was, you know, phenomenal feedback and all of that. And for the most part, a lot of that still exists, and they've kind of allowed us to still continue some of the culture of it, but just good, like, with re renaming some things and all of that. Um, but hold on bringing What's your

Nicoa Coach: 10:52

job there? No question that's right, yeah, what's your job there? Tell us a little bit about what keeps you busy,

DEVON KEELER: 10:58

yeah. Um, so I work in the clinical research group, where basically my department is in charge of kind of strategic planning for clinical trials. So we're a lot of like the front end activities, where we're putting together, where it makes sense to run the trial, how many sites they're going to need, potentially, what enrollment for like, the specific patient population is going to look like. And then we also do some like risk analysis type stuff, and connect them with the resources that will be able to help sort of mitigate those from the very beginning.

Nicoa Coach: 11:32

And why do you why do you like that job? Why do you do that work?

DEVON KEELER: 11:36

Yeah, I, for one, I absolutely love my job. Like it kind of took me a little while to get here. I feel like I was for a lot of people who work in the industry, they've been there for a while. I am a little bit young for my role, for the most part, and I absolutely am in love with my job, because it's like a puzzle every single day that you know, no, no clinical trial is ever going to be exactly the same, and no, no sponsor is the same. They all have different expectations. It's different teams that you're working with. And I don't know I like the fact that I get to, kind of like, put together all these moving pieces and make it tell a story that makes sense. So I think

Nicoa Coach: 12:19

so. Is that it's purpose driven for you too. It's something that you it's a skill that you like and you enjoy, to what is the ultimate I mean? So these are the types of questions I wish somebody had asked me back in the day, yeah, you know, when I started working. So, you know, so why do you like that? Like, why do you like putting the lines

DEVON KEELER: 12:38

with my breath? Yeah? Well, for one, like I mentioned, I always really loved the concept of kind of contributing to research. I didn't really know, you know, way back when I was going to college that I really wanted it to be any specific kind of research. So that's kind of what drove me into the whole, like, data science, you know, it's a lot of what I do is data driven. So, like, we're looking at historic trends and kind of trying to project things into the future, which, you know, there's some science to it, there's some art to it, there's some business to it, also, like we have to, you know, pitch certain things and all of that. But I think what, so, what brought me into the role that I'm in now is it's in oncology. So we work with cancer trials for the most part. And my aunt, not the aunt Laura that you mentioned, but we lost my aunt to breast cancer a couple years ago, and so that was really sort of like, there have been lot of a lot of turning points in my life. I think that brought me here, but that was one of the really big ones that really made me kind of examine what I was doing with my life, and it wasn't really what I wanted, like, how did I want to be making my impact? And so that it was actually a debate that I had when I was taking the offer for this job, because this one was in oncology, and the other one was not specific to oncology, and it was to the week right around the anniversary of when she passed. And so I was like, this isn't, you know, a sign to kind of examine what I might be able to learn from this and how it aligns with the bigger picture things that I want in my life. So I think that's, that's a big part of that story for me too, is that, you know, where we're working with cutting edge medicines every single day.

Nicoa Coach: 14:35

I think that's first of all, I know that was a really hard time for you and your mom and and I'm so sorry for your loss. And yet, the timing of the of the offer, it's kind of interesting. May I share a similar story for when I took my job with thermo, I got called into an interview in Colorado, and we were in what it was a was the final throws of these interviews, and I'm in this boardroom with the plant manager, and I was going to support him and clinical, clinical, CCD, clinical, something division can't remember anyway, back in the day, we're sitting in this room

DEVON KEELER: 15:19

straight and I work for them. Now I can't either. Now it's the

Nicoa Coach: 15:22

worst. So we're sitting in the boardroom, and there's this assay test sitting on the boardroom table, a whole bunch of vials and information. And I said, Oh, what's that? And the guy goes, Oh, it's actually a test that we create. It's a set of assays for cystic fibrosis. And I said, really? I was like, Huh? I have a niece and nephew with cystic fibrosis. Wow. And he was like, Yeah. He goes. This set of tests is called the Silas. And I almost collapsed. My knees got weak, and I looked at him, and I said, you're kidding. My nephew, name is Silas. I just got goosebumps and like, what? I'm not kidding. I was like, you were like, the job. I'll take the job. Thank you. I mean, if it was not a sign, yeah, to take that job, I do not. To this day, I still get goosebumps telling the story, the fact that my nephew with cystic fibrosis is named Silas, and you just told me that assay test his name. Oh, my God. So I tried not to be too saying yes too quickly in the moment, you still

Unknown: 16:32

have to do your due diligence,

Nicoa Coach: 16:36

and it was worth it, but, but I can appreciate the timing. And you know, what we're talking about is the signs and listening to our intuition and paying attention. You know, how has that type of like you said you had this debate. Was this just a self debate? Were you bouncing this off of other people in your life? Talk to me about your relationship with decision making and the use of signs and things like that.

DEVON KEELER: 17:01

Yeah, it's actually something I really hope we'd get into today, because I was like, I have so much to say.

Unknown: 17:07

Good. Hush.

DEVON KEELER: 17:11

But so I think it has taken me a really long time to I've always been a relatively intuitive person and like kind of tapped into that side of myself pretty easily, but I went through some things in college years where either being manipulated by people or, like, kind of misreading certain situations, where it got me in trouble. And, you know, I went through probably a several year period when I was in grad school of really struggling to trust my gut instincts and being like it's gotten you really you know under the bus in the past, and maybe you're not good at reading situations, and you know, maybe you shouldn't trust that part of yourself as much as you have. So it's been this kind of long standing relationship of I've gone back and forth between leaning into Logic and leaning into intuition, and I think I'm finally, kind of at this place where I use both of them pretty heavily. I'm also a Capricorn, so like that side of my brain is like it has to make sense.

Nicoa Coach: 18:22

Let's put it in a box. So give us an example. Tell me, tell me a time in the past where you wish you had listened to your intuition, if you can,

DEVON KEELER: 18:39

where I wish I had listened to my intuition,

Nicoa Coach: 18:43

or you like if you remember hearing it, but then you ignored it, like I was when I took that last job at all scripts, it was mysis, healthcare, I knew I was going to get the job, but I had an intuitive voice. It was like, you don't want this job. Don't take this job. And I completely consciously ignored that voice. And I remember saying, no, no, okay, cook as a Capricorn. Yeah, no. I already know where we're going to live. I already know what time my kids are going to start classes. And I know that these people, they're people, they're humans. They need me. I'm going to be here to help them. And I ended up quitting the job two and a half years later and and I knew now I don't regret it, but it was some tough going. It seems to me, I tend to ignore intuition and end up working a hell a lot harder than I would have had to if I'd listened to my intuition. Yeah,

DEVON KEELER: 19:34

so I think I was kind of trying to think back through my own process with that, like when I was super disconnected from it. I think it was more of like a I just wasn't even hearing the things like it. You know, there was no room for me to listen to those signs. And so I just stopped getting them, you know, the the less you pay attention to things, the less they come up for you. And the more you pay attention, the more they come up for you. So it's like, I think I just completely, kind of shut that part down. And so I didn't even have that voice, and not, not that like, that phase. I don't, I don't really feel like, you know, I lost a whole lot in that phase of not listening, but I did, you know, begin to recognize that I wasn't paying attention to the less concrete parts of existence.

Nicoa Coach: 20:26

Yeah, and we tend to numb out. We tend to, you know, distract and stay busy, and we don't sit still long enough so we can't hear it. And

DEVON KEELER: 20:33

so that that connects very well to kind of what I wanted to talk about in this process, is that I think through that period, what what sticks with me the most now is that I just stopped paying attention, and I stopped kind of doing that like constant self evaluation. And. Of is what I'm doing right now actually aligned with what I want for one thing. And two, is it aligned with, like, what I feel like my bigger purpose is, or like, what the bigger picture? Like, how do I want this version to look and and it was so much like, you know, when you're in survival mode where you're just you're putting one step in front of the other, and you don't really know where you're going. So that I feel like was kind of that wall that I ended up in for a while was just sort of going on autopilot for a couple years. And I think that's like my regret, is that not that I wasted that time because I still learned things and all of that, and it did bring me, you know, where I'm at today, which I'm very happy with. So it's, you know, I think we all go through our things where we learn about ourselves and the ways that we want to be in the ways that we don't want to be. And that was definitely one of those time periods for me. And just kind of that yeah, reminder to it makes

Nicoa Coach: 21:44

me wonder, yeah, yeah. It makes me wonder how intentional if we could teach, teach teach our younger selves, and teach the young, younger people today to be much more intentional. But sometimes you just don't know how to be intentional because you haven't lived yet. Like,

DEVON KEELER: 22:00

it takes that certain level of awareness that you just have to learn over time. Like, there's you can't cheat that test,

Nicoa Coach: 22:08

yeah. You really can't, and then you have to recognize that you have the ability to say, you know, there's value in this. You talk about this longer version, or, you know, you're really referencing kind of a set of values. So how did you come up with those? Have there been practices that you've put in place? Or, you know, I think you didn't, you do some yoga for a while or you were, yeah. So tell me a little bit about some of your practices. Yeah. So

DEVON KEELER: 22:34

I actually, I got my yoga teacher training certification during COVID Because that was like another I mean, I feel like in my adult life, we've had so many things that were just like, the world is ending.

Nicoa Coach: 22:46

I know. Well, welcome to this week as we watch the apocalyptic quads of western North Carolina, I'm still in shock. Sorry. You knew I'd bring it up. Go ahead.

DEVON KEELER: 22:58

No, totally on the same page. It's been, it's been a tough week in, you know, watching all that happen to you.

Nicoa Coach: 23:05

So to maximize COVID, is what you're saying.

DEVON KEELER: 23:09

Yes, COVID was sort of kind of my first, I mean, at that point I had finished grad school, and I was of the mindset that I knew, like where I was at was most likely temporary in my career, and that it, I was starting to come to, like, this realization that it I really didn't feel like it was going to be able to support me and I was going to be able to do justice to what I was doing, just because I had kind of lost inspiration. And then COVID hit, and I went through sort of that first round of, you know, like, what am I doing here?

Nicoa Coach: 23:51

Who am I? Why am I here? I

DEVON KEELER: 23:53

think a lot of people did that, one because we were forced to spend so much time by ourselves, and two, like, it changed so many things about our daily lives, and we were like, okay, like, how do we? How do we live this way now? Right? So I think that was sort of the first step, and also, like, the mortality of it. I mean, like, a lot of people were really scared. So then that also kind of brings in this other level of, like, am I living my life the way that I want to for you? Yeah, which I don't think I was alone in that. I think a lot of people were kind of having some of those realizations and, you know, realigning with the things that they wanted and their higher purpose, or however you want to say it, and it will think about things. I think

Nicoa Coach: 24:44

they're thinking about them, but a lot of people spend a lot, a lot of time resisting what was, you know, really being in resistance and being upset and scared, and it sounds like you got through that initial I mean, we all kind of were in like, you know, avoidance, like, we're like, oh, what's Oh, it'll be over soon, you know, we're fine. We're fine, until you got faced with, okay, what the hell really just happened here? Sounds like you got over that hump pretty quickly and started making some decisions for yourself. How did you do that? Do you know? Do you journal or do you have these self dialogs? Are you like me, crazy woman who talks to herself all the time now they're all being crazy. Sorry. Don't mean to. Don't tell me no.

DEVON KEELER: 25:28

To be completely honest, I don't really do a lot of, like, those kind of more. I mean, I hesitate to call them mainstream, but like the common sort of self practice type stuff, I think yoga, like you mentioned, was a big thing for me, of just like, learn or like, kind of remembering to turn inward for guidance. You know that that one of the. Lessons they teach is that, like you're the only one that knows exactly what's going on in your body, and the teacher could be guiding you in certain ways and have that expectation of you, but it's your responsibility to yourself to do what feels right. And so I think that lesson kind of you know, bleeds into everything that I try to bring to my own life now, and I feel like it was always in there somewhere, you know, from being a kid. But I think, you know, as we grow up and face cultural expectations and norms and and the things that we see going on around us, we lose touch with that a little bit. So I think that's

Nicoa Coach: 26:26

the hero's journey. I mean, I think that's what we're supposed to do. So you're born knowing you're enough. I mean, maybe we do bring for depends on your belief system, but maybe we bring some historical memory in our cellular makeup and some lineage, you know, belief systems that can affect how we show up on this planet. But typically, society just kind of brainwashes us to believe and fit ourselves into the game, and then if you're not either quitting your job or having an existential crisis by the time you're 40, then you're not really on the right journey. You've numbed out enough to avoid it. But if you aren't too numbed out, and you start listening, then you remember your wholeness. And I think practices like yoga are pretty powerful. And if people can stop looking at yoga as this activity, like I go to the class, I sit on the mat, I listen to the teacher, and they do exactly what you just said. They go inward. I like the phrase that always stayed with me from all my yoga over the years was, you know, stay on your mat. It's your mat. Like, stay on your mat. Because I came home once and I told my husband, I was like, Oh my God, a girl was doing headstands and blah, blah. And he goes. I was like, I felt so inadequate. He said, You know, I don't think yoga is supposed to be competitive. I'm feeling very competitive. I'm feeling compared

DEVON KEELER: 27:52

like, when you're at the gym and you're like, running on a treadmill next to someone else, and you're like, Oh, we're racing now

Nicoa Coach: 27:59

I know so, yeah, it takes some practice to trust that you can go inward. What advice would you give as a teacher now certified? Are you still teaching yoga? Or just have your certification, or what's going on there?

DEVON KEELER: 28:12

Yeah. So I never actually got into teaching. It was okay. I was kind of in this phase of trying to figure out, you know, what direction I wanted to go in next. And when I did training, I was like, I'm gonna teach. I'm gonna open up my own studio. It's gonna be amazing. Like, who knows what's gonna happen? Obviously, went on a different track from there. But I do think that's something like, I have tried to help myself grow into too in a lot of the things that I've explored. So like, I'll get back to your initial question in a second about

Nicoa Coach: 28:44

take it girl. But

DEVON KEELER: 28:46

so I think if there's sort of one thing that I'm, like, really proud of, of the ways that I've changed in the past, like maybe five years, is that really sitting in being open to things, and if I'm inspired by something, follow that like, you know, don't pay attention to well, not don't pay attention, but like, notice in the corner the reasons why it might not work. But, you know, use that as a voice of how to prepare, instead of a voice of, don't try it. And and that's, I think, kind of one of the biggest things, like themes that's coming up in my life right now, like I'm doing something at work where no one has seen anything like what I'm trying to make happen happen. And, okay, so I'm talking to people about, you know, these ideas that I trust and and I'm like, I'm not here to, you know, hear that this won't work, or, like, you can't do this, or it's never been done before, whatever. I'm here talking to you about this because I want to know your perspective, the things to look out for, and you know how to make it better? Because it is something that you know higher level leadership are going to be. Like, absolutely not so, like, how do I kind of smooth that into the situation,

Nicoa Coach: 30:06

right? Taking into data. I mean, we have to have, as I always joke, you know, just the facts. Ma'am, if you can give me the facts as they're currently known, then you can move from the facts, the real realism of the moment, to what might be possible. And that's where kind of the magic comes in. I mean, if you can think it, you can create it, yeah, sometimes they need someone to push the envelope like that. So I'm really proud of you for having the confidence to take it all in and continue to push forward. Thank

DEVON KEELER: 30:36

you. And it's not on me, like there are multiple people involved in this, so sure, it's just, it's a really exciting thing that I'm, you know, feeling very deeply tied to right now, and that's kind of had me internally thinking a lot about. Uh, you know, like, what makes me comfortable being this person that's like, I don't care that it's never been done before. Let's give it a shot.

Nicoa Coach: 30:57

Don't you find that fascinating, that some people have that ability to go there, and others would never even consider it like they are so in there? Well, I wouldn't, I don't know. I sure had the idea, but I'm not going to ask. Why do you I mean, I'm always fascinated by the different personalities. I mean, obviously we're, we're two Capricorns having a sink into each other's choir. So Capricorn personalities are like, why not? Let's make it happen. Bias for action. Let's get it done. Oh my god. I just find it fascinating, though. I mean, like the average performer, when I worked at GE, we back at the day GE had least effective performers, middle 70, and then the top performers. And I used to go to bed at night, and I happened to be overachiever in the top performers. And it was a lot of pressure. And I remember thinking, I just want to be a middle 70 Exactly. How do they do it? Can

Unknown: 31:55

I just can I be normal? I

Nicoa Coach: 31:59

just want to be normal. Please. Someone help me not want to keep working and over achieving. I mean, when you changed your mind about that. I mean, you because you had that Capricorn gene going when you were you were like, Oh, I'm gonna get my yoga certification. So what switched for you to make the change, you needed money. You had to go get another job. I mean, what happened? Um,

DEVON KEELER: 32:27

okay, so that was when, when COVID came through, and then shortly after, that was when everything started happening with my aunt. So I went through, you know, doing yoga, teacher training and being really inspired. And, like, being kept up at night, you know, going through sequences to teach in my head and that kind of thing. So I, like, I was very inspired that that was the way that I wanted to interact with people and help people. And I do feel like I have a sort of kind of service mentality, and I want to make sure I stay aligned with that. But at the time, I was like, I want to be, you know, hands on with people, and I want to interact directly with the people and be able to see them grow, and, you know, find validation for myself in that. And then everything happened with my aunt, and that completely changed my perspective. And I was like, No, I like, I want to have a more far reaching impact. And, you know, there are still ups and downs and, like, big pharma and all of that. And so it's, it's a, it's still a mixed bag for sure.

Nicoa Coach: 33:34

Well, I think you said something pretty profound to even reflect on, which is, I wanted to make an impact by helping people. I wanted to know I was doing that for them. And I've been playing a lot lately with the Okay, and then what? Yeah, and then, so, why? Why is that important to you? Are we trying to, are we still looking externally for our purpose and value to try to prove to others that we're worthy? Or could you, you know, I mean, you know what? I mean, like you, you had to realign it to different levels of purpose. But honestly, you just being here is purpose enough, so I don't know

DEVON KEELER: 34:14

that's what am I gonna have a really hard time with. So that's it. I would say that probably deserves some journaling.

Unknown: 34:21

I think that does, yeah,

DEVON KEELER: 34:23

and probably for many more people than just myself.

Nicoa Coach: 34:29

That's why we're here. That is why we do this podcast. I want people thinking about that, you know, and then what, and then what. So I care say that again, like

DEVON KEELER: 34:40

the why, like something I was going through in my head last night as I was thinking about the stuff that we might talk about today, is i, and this maybe fits into your topic of, you know, the things that I do to sort of like, question myself and kind of figure out what is important to me is that I was on this thought train, imagining something, you know, a topic that we were maybe going to talk about, and I was picturing you, which is very funny that it's now coming up, um, basically just like, repeatedly asking me, why. And so like, I would tell you something, and you'd be like, but why?

Nicoa Coach: 35:13

Oh, my God, you totally manifested this.

DEVON KEELER: 35:18

And I, you know, I did get to a point where I was like, I, I don't know. And so, you know, just even I think getting as as you're internally processing things, and this is that is something that I like to do is asking yourself, why? And that, you know, it's like talking with your inner child, you know, and they're like, but why? But why, but why. And sometimes with kids, we don't know the answers. And so it's just kind of wild to have that a. Like internal dialog, I guess, and be like, I don't know the answer to that. Maybe we'll figure it out.

Nicoa Coach: 35:55

That's right. And sometimes the answer is, just because it feels good, just because that's what I want to do right this minute. Yeah, I think it's important for people to see your path and take it you know, as people are listening, to recognize that you can be fully in you can be completely doing something and then change your mind because it no longer aligns with what matters most to you. So knowing what matters most to you becomes the ultimate goal, you know, because our behavior somehow aligns to that value, right? And it sounds to me like when you ultimately shifted, you were looking at the values of, you know, solving some world problems that were perhaps not supporting your aunt and her experience as well as it might have, or, you know, giving people with your aunt's circumstance access to alternatives and traditional medicine, right?

DEVON KEELER: 36:47

Yeah, so that kind of fits into this whole bigger picture thing, and especially because so at work, I I lead a group of strategists in cell and gene therapy technologies and how to successfully set up trials for that. And my aunt had gone to Mexico to be able to do something sort of similar for her cancer, and, you know, because there's nothing available and nothing approved, and so, I mean, even, you know, a few years down the road, we're already seeing huge jumps in that area and so much more attention and focus and that kind of thing. So that feels really good to to, you know, even down to that point of, like, the type of therapy that she thought would be most meaningful to help research move along in that space.

Nicoa Coach: 37:41

Well, think about the power of if we, either we have free will or it's all predestined. I mean, I really do struggle sometimes with these, these big concepts, because I'm like, Well, you maybe that was the gift your aunt gave by sacrificing her life at that age in order for you to be inspired to go work with these individuals to make a change in the world for so more people could be supported. And that that was her sacrifice. You know, who knows? But I can tell you something, life is a lot more fun when you come up and frame you come up with and you frame your life story to have impact like that, and to have purpose driven action to then point to and say, This is what I've decided that meant. Here's what I decided the why was for me, and here's how I'm going to take that and look at the unlimited possibilities that I can now apply this insight or motivation or inspiration to.

DEVON KEELER: 38:42

Yeah, I am very much in agreement with that, I think in a slightly different way, like I'm I'm not like a religious person or anything, but I hugely respect the people who have a story that they hold on to that helps them live their lives better. And yeah, sometimes treat other people better, but not always. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 39:05

sometimes that can take into a control factor. Yeah,

DEVON KEELER: 39:09

exactly. That's not what I'm here for today. But I understood I do. I do very much align with like, you know, we tell ourselves stories every day about why things happen, and in certain ways, it makes things more meaningful, and it makes our existence more meaningful. And if you, you know, latch on to that in a certain way, like, where's the harm in that?

Nicoa Coach: 39:38

There is no harm in it. I had an argument once with somebody a long time ago, and they were like, well, you're just rationalizing it. And I said, Well, I can either be a victim to it. I can be really pissed off about it, or I can just rationalize it and move on. And I can't live in that catabolic, negative space without self destruction. So I have to rationalize. I always tell people, at a minimum, I need you to rationalize your circumstance so you can choose to move forward without suffering.

DEVON KEELER: 40:10

So I'm gonna ask, because there, yeah, go ahead, ask you why, right there, because I was also having, you know, a little thing about this conversation last night.

Nicoa Coach: 40:20

Okay, I've invited the psychic and the intuitive onto the show. Ladies and gentlemen,

DEVON KEELER: 40:26

please ask like so you know this concept of that we I think it is a huge tool to try to make sense of the things that we observe and then use those stories in a constructive way. But what if we didn't have to do that, you know? What if? What if we didn't have to lean on that to be able to like you were saying, let it go. Or move on, or, you know, transmute it into something else. What if we could just let it be what it is, and, you know, still do our thing in a certain level. Obviously, it doesn't apply to every situation, but

Nicoa Coach: 41:02

actually you can, and people do and we do it in areas of our lives that we don't even realize we're doing it. So, I mean, I I don't analyze why I'm breathing, you know, I don't analyze the sun coming up.

DEVON KEELER: 41:14

They're like right here.

Nicoa Coach: 41:19

But I think that everyone is in and out of these. And I talk about this energy leadership concept a lot, because you're constantly perceiving your world, but you can only perceive your world based on your past life experience, right? So I could never see your world the same way because I had different experiences. And although we're both human, we're seeing and viewing and like filtering what we're experiencing every day through our own sunglasses, our own lenses. But when we take off the sunglasses and we recognize that there are, you know, to your point, you'd like to be open minded. You want to be available to what's possible when I take the sunglasses off of my life experience, then I can create a conscious opportunity, and I can be in a practice of not making something that historically triggered me because of my sunglasses. With practice, I can, at some point in the future notice, oh, the guy cut me off in traffic, and I no longer even notice. But it takes conscious practice and like, to be aware of my autonomic nervous system's reaction in order to learn how to soothe myself and be like, calm or distracted, you know, like, oh, slow down. Guy needs to cut in front of me. Oh, but I'm still thinking about this joyful dinner I had last night with my friends, right? Versus the stress of some future meeting I might be late to because this guy cut me off where the mind goes, energy flows. So, yes, it's absolutely possible, and it's simultaneous, right? That makes sense. Yeah.

DEVON KEELER: 42:54

That actually brings up another thing that I do want to talk about is like this, I feel like getting back to this theme of like, the things that have brought me to where I am now, especially like the kind of internal growth I've had in the past couple years, which I feel like is probably a little bit why my mom was like, You should interview Dev, yes, but I have really practiced leaving room within myself to hold like conflicting things at the same time. So like when, yeah, when we consider that, you know, these ideas we have in our heads about, for example, emotions like that, you can't have room for anger and joy at the same time, and you can, or, you know, like grief and gratitude, or it's, it's, I think, a whole other level of kind of emotional evolution, where you can recognize that you can hold space for both of them at the same time. And I think the same thing applies for ideas too, and and, you know, like, for example, what's going on with work and the fact that I'm trying to make something happen that has never happened before. And so it's like, okay, there are reasons why it could fail, why it's not a good idea, why, whatever. But there are a lot of, you know, supporting reasons for it too. So how do we balance those things in order to make something come of it? And I think that theme sort of applies to a lot of different things.

Nicoa Coach: 44:30

So how are you balancing that? How do you do that?

DEVON KEELER: 44:35

I don't really know that. It's a science for me. I think I I try to recognize, you know, like when those things are coming up, and because I have not always been great at processing emotion, especially when they're like, very deep, very strong ones, anger was a big thing that, like, I, you know, I always just kind of thought I was, like, a very level headed person, which I still think I am, to a certain degree. But it doesn't mean that, like, I never felt those things. And, oh, sure, um, so, like, I even as a kid, I never really had, like, huge temper tantrums. And, you know, my mom and I never really, like, fought a lot when I was growing up, so I think anger and that, like, rise and like, like, I just didn't really know how to process. And so when it came up, I was like, What do I do with this? Right? And that was another thing that was coming up a lot with my aunt in that I, like one, I was obviously very sad about the situation. And, you know, grieving the situation, even before she passed, when we knew things looked pretty bad, and I was really angry about, you know, like, why was this happening? And she was, you know, up. Person who, in her own ways, had a lot of impact, positive impact on she was a dentist, she volunteered a lot, like she did mission stuff. And so I'm like, why, you know, again, telling ourselves these stories and making sense of things, and why is this happening? And I was so angry, so that was, that was kind of one of the, one of the bigger times that I feel like I've dealt with that. And at the time, I was like, this is the only thing I can feel like. I can't, I can't feel other things, because this is taking up so much room inside of me. And as I I'm

Nicoa Coach: 46:29

glad you said that, yeah, as I grew, because a little, you

DEVON KEELER: 46:33

know, you can learn to when you notice something else kind of creeping in. Okay, I'm going to focus on that for a little bit. And I think that also helps with the grieving process too, is that, you know, you can't just be in grief all the time, and there's guilt around that too. I mean, guilt. That makes sense. Like, you know you feel bad about when you start living your life again and when you start feeling happy about certain things. And so it's obviously a lot of complex things, but yeah, what were you gonna say?

Nicoa Coach: 47:02

No, that's exactly right. And what and everything you just described comes with its own interpretive label, such as well. Then you feel guilty about not grieving enough well, because then you made not grieving some sort of betrayal against the person who's no longer here. Or, you know, I hear you, and I have in my recent I'm going through a divorce, and I'm carrying two story lines, and one story line is, Wow, thank goodness you know, our relationship showed up for both of us exactly the way it was supposed to, and it served us well, and now it needs to end. And on the other hand, I'm like, super angry, and I feel betrayed and and I'm sure John does too. We both are like, oh, you know, it's not what we wanted, and we're mad at ourselves, we're disappointed with each other. And then on the other hand, we're like, but wait, it's exactly what we said it was supposed to be, which I carry that type of thinking a lot more. But in my attempt to hold on to that storyline, to feel better, quote, unquote, and to move forward and rationalize, the other voice just kept coming in. So I had to sit with it. I had to allow the emotion. And that is something that people have a really hard time doing. And it sounds like you went back and forth, right, like any normal person would, but they can be held simultaneously, and they have to be, because you are energy, energy in motion, emotion. You're constantly going to be having all the feels, the power source here is where the mind goes, and you can I'll just be normal. Like, I'll just give you. I'll be normal. I'm like, do, to do, to do, getting ready for Devin blah, blah. They're like, Oh my god, I'm so sad. And then it will just stop. It will take less than a minute. And I'm like, All right, of course, that was that little moment of sadness. Okay, next, yeah, but I have to let them come in those little bubbles. And it happens a lot with people going through grief. You know, anger has been a big one, and then dissecting the emotion the grief, or the is the grief really about the loss of your aunt? Or is the grief about your loss? It's not really about her dying and she was a good person. It was about you miss her. You wanted her in your life. You wanted more of her, and then there she is. We try to, I mean, I'm talking off the cuff here, but we try to make it about, oh, she was a good person. Well, I don't care if she was a homeless lady, she died, right? Sure, she was a good person, but God or whoever, I'm not. I'm not religious either, but whoever is helping these soul contracts make their decisions doesn't really give a shit whether you volunteered for 42 hours, right? They don't. It doesn't matter. You are enough, whether you're homeless on a street or you are Mother Teresa, I believe that. I don't know argue, go for

DEVON KEELER: 50:05

it. I feel like that came up a little bit earlier, and I wanted to talk about it, but it, you know, we moved on to something else but squirrel. Yeah, I love them, where this concept, and this is, this was the impetus behind this should be a journal prompt kind of thing of, like, right, being enough without being enough. And, you know, like, just existing like you're allowed, and should just do that and that, you know, what is this life that we get and and I think for me, you know, I don't really know, like, where this came from, but. But a lot of kind of the struggle that I have internally is finding that self worth and detaching it from the things that I feel like I bring to the world and like, you know, it can be enough just to be walking down the street with my dog and smile at somebody and like that can be it, you know, and yeah, and reminding myself that sometimes, but I also do think it's a balance that, like I, I do want to make the world a better place, and that only happens when people have a vision and are committed and driven, and, You know, have that dedication. And again, kind of coming back to the story of like, where does it come from, and does it really matter? And does the story behind it matter? Sometimes, yeah, when you know it becomes a destructive thing to the person, or, you know, when we struggle to self worth things, then obviously, yes, there's, I think there is a problem there. But for the most part, I think if you can balance, I don't know, like, like, I'm proud of myself when I perform well with things. And like, sometimes, yeah, thing, and sometimes it's not a great thing.

Nicoa Coach: 52:01

Well, I think it's balance to your point. I mean, when I know I'm enough, then if something doesn't go the way I originally wanted it to go, like an outcome at work, then the loss of that, or the misstep there, doesn't cause me angst. I might be like, Oh, that's not what we'd hoped for, but I can continue to move forward. You know, that's it. It does it destroy me? Does it hurt me? Am I so connected and attached to it that I can't be okay with the outcome? That might not have been what I think that's it. It's attachment. Yeah,

DEVON KEELER: 52:42

yeah. The detachment factor is, like, you know, you you can be committed all you want, but, like, detaching from the outcome to a certain degree where, like, I've put everything I possibly could into this, and I'm proud of that, no matter what happens. And so that's kind of the space where, like, I try to live, even though sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, where, you know, what you put into it, in the day to day matters and is a good thing, and whatever comes of that, you know, whether you're saying, you know, like, is it pre ordained, or do we have free will, or all of that, like, you know, some things happen and some things don't, and sometimes there's bigger reasons, and maybe there's not, maybe we're all just out here around doing our things. I don't know, but, and I

Nicoa Coach: 53:28

don't think, I think, I don't think we have to know. I think the most important thing to do is to know what matters most to you and your values, and to live to that. And if it makes you feel good, then it's okay, you know. And most people's values don't include, you know, intentional destruction of other people. Or some people are concerned about living their life the way they want to, because they don't want to be perceived as selfish or doing something that isn't service oriented, you know. You know, sitting and staring at the view for hours on end doesn't make Nicoa a bad person, you know. But I you know, does Nicoa want to tell everybody she spent eight hours the other day when she could have been volunteering to help the people of Western North Carolina. Yeah, probably not going to publicize that, but I might, and I and to be okay with that. It's kind of that, can you just be okay with being and it sounds like you're coming to a space and have already much sooner than most people in their lives to recognize that you can't get this thing called life wrong.

DEVON KEELER: 54:35

I mean, bull and stuff, but

Nicoa Coach: 54:39

right, we don't want to kill people. But you know, some spiritual beliefs are there's value at all, right? So there's value at all, from murder to orgasm. There you go. Said it out loud. May Devin chuckle, you know, let me bring something up, though, I'll switch. So the whole thing about attachment. So I had a client message me from western North Carolina, and she it was as if she were whispering in the text, and she said to me, I have to tell you, this has been really cleansing. You're the only one I can say this to right now. And I said, it's really cleansing for everybody, whether they can see it right now or not. And I think that, you know, I'm always trying to find value so because otherwise I suffer too much. So maybe that's my own issue, but I do prefer to, and to your point, can't we just all say, whatever happens, happens, and here we are. That's kind of where I am most of the time. You know, I would say I'm there 75% of the time. And I can say. Hell. I wonder what the value was in this massive event, right? What is the earth trying to say? What are these individuals affected going to now do with their lives? Which ones of them will be like, wow, you know what? I was sick of that life anyway, right? Thank God the house got washed away. We're gonna take this, whatever little bit of money we have, and we're gonna go start somewhere else, or noticing people's reactions under stress. Wow. I mean, there there's value, there could be value. Yeah, I find that fascinating. I'll

DEVON KEELER: 56:24

agree with that too, and I think to to a certain point, and obviously, like, this is not the same situation, but like when Florence hit Wilmington and everything, yeah, down for a month, and, you know, it was this sort of like, it brings you back to a very simple existence. And as much as it's terrifying you know that these people are just trying to survive, and some of them are dying and or have passed already. And it's you know this, like we as you know, a progressive culture, have come so far from just living and and what that means that it can be kind of refreshing to have something like that happen and just be like, okay, you know, I the only thing I can focus on is what's happening right now and what I can do today. And yes, it really has that impact to kind of like, and even someone who's not going through it. I noticed that in myself, that like I'm talking to my family who live up there and and that it brings you just back into a different headspace about, you know, what is important, and what can I do today, and again, aligning with the person that you want to be and all of that. So

Nicoa Coach: 57:52

what if we could all just do that today, no matter our circumstance, right? So what does matter most to you guys, you listeners out there, have you ever sat down? I mean, we talked about mergers and acquisitions at the beginning of this and cultural integration and branding. We rarely do that for our own lives. We know how to do it really well in the corporate world, but I could tell you, I probably would still be in my first marriage if we learned how to do that from day one. I mean, we were together 27 years. But let me be clear, my attempts at later in life, attempting to create, like, what are our values as a family, got a lot of eye rolls. What matters most to us, so I don't know. Let's go eat tacos. I'm like, Okay, guys, so you can't, you can't change other people, but you can at least change yourself. So I invite our listeners to write down what are your values. And there's a great book by Dan zaidra that I love to advertise. He owes me. He totally owes me. Dan zaidra, it's called Five Where do you want to be in five years? And a lot of people kind of like, oh, five year plan. I'm like, Well, yeah, but I write in pencil, so I change it every year anyway. And

DEVON KEELER: 59:06

that's such a like, such a cool thing to give yourself permission to change your mind. And I think that, oh, yeah, like, I, I am a Capricorn that doesn't have a five year plan. And so, you know, I think that has been helpful for me in like, I have a, you know, a general idea, but I don't like break it down by steps and stuff. And I think that is really helpful with giving myself permission to be like is where I'm at right now, still in alignment with where I want to be, and that helps kind of bring me back into checking in more often, because I don't have a set plan,

Nicoa Coach: 59:41

right, and it's really and the more powerful piece too is that it just requires you to pause and reflect on your way of being. What is my way of being and my legacy? How do I want to be perceived? How do I want to lead? You know, that's that aligns with me feeling good. You know what matters most to me? What is my mission, my vision, and I can change it. You know, who are the people that are influencing me right now? If we don't pause, this is kind of the point you've had moments in your career and in your life where you were forced to pause, right? Or you gave yourself permission to pause and then reassess. So really, permission is what I hear when you tell me your story. I gave myself permission, well, to make a change and see

DEVON KEELER: 1:00:27

the way I see it is that circumstances forced me to, I mean, like I to a certain degree, like it was a okay, I should tap into this. But, I mean, they it. Those periods of time were followed by events that made me think about things differently, whereas, you know, in an ideal sort of self progression. Timeline, you would do that on your own and be like, you know, if this is my last year on Earth, like, am I living the way I want to? And sometimes, you know, checking in in that way without something catastrophic happening in your life is a really powerful tool.

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:07

Well, I think the catastrophic experiences that we're observing on on, you know, globally right now, should be jerking a nod in us to your point, yeah. So, you know, instead of sitting around going, Oh, thank God, that's not me, which I spent a lot of time thinking about, that might we just moved my mother from western North Carolina, you know, I'm on the water, you know, I've know damn well I could be just like those people on the news, moving towards, okay, let's do a life check. Is this where I still want to be? Can I live here fear free, right? Knowing that I could also be strong and resilient and come back to the basics, if I had to, and really aligning my way of being so that I can live the life I want and I love. And it sounds like to me that you're really loving your life right now. Tell us a little bit about outside of the career space, like, what's fun for you? How are you finding joy and laughter and fun in your life?

DEVON KEELER: 1:02:07

So it's actually, I would say probably this past year, like the beginning of this year, I've really sort of switched into more of a mindset of, like, trying to find my inspiration. That earlier this year, I became friends with someone who I feel like I've learned a lot from in just, you know, conversations and life perspective and that kind of thing. And they came to visit Wilmington, and had, I think maybe had been once, but, like, didn't explore all that much or whatever. And in, you know, like seeing it from someone else's perspective, I was like, I'm not inspired by living here anymore. And I, you know, I mean, like, I love the beach, sure, but it wasn't like, it was really kind of a hard realization that I was like, Maybe this isn't the place for me anymore, which is not really a headspace I had ever been in since moving there, because, you know, I was there for college and then early career, and I had, you know, my mom lived there, and I had built myself this beautiful network of, you know, career, friends, whatever, all the things. And I loved that about living there. And then all of a sudden, something was just kind of like, and I was like, I don't want to be here anymore.

Nicoa Coach: 1:03:33

Yeah, good.

DEVON KEELER: 1:03:35

And so, but I do think it kind of comes back to that whole the inspiration thing. And you know, you can love something without feeling inspired by it. And that I sort of left room for that. And I was like, Okay, well, you know, what does inspire me right now? So I spent a little bit of time kind of, like throwing around different ideas and exploring different places. And so that was part of why I ended up leaving Wilmington and so getting into the whole, you know, like, joy, fun, whatever is that, something that I'm really trying to build more into my life right now, because I do think it has been something that's been on, you know, left on the back burner most of the time. And I'm an artist on the side too, and I haven't created anything just creative in a very long time. And so that's something that I'm trying to tap into again, also in just, you know, like doing things for the intrinsic value of them. It doesn't have to change the world. It can just be what I feel like slapping paint on, or, I don't know, just, you know, doing more things for fun and just for the the experience and the exploration and,

Nicoa Coach: 1:04:46

yeah, the esthetics of it all, just to have the experience and not needing to share it or just to experience it, yeah, I think that's kind of the whole point. I'm really glad that you're saying

DEVON KEELER: 1:04:59

that the whole point. And I'm like, it's the whole point,

Nicoa Coach: 1:05:02

yeah, whether it's work or play or, you know, washing the dishes, can you embrace it and then immerse yourself in it to where it's fulfilling and satisfying. And because, I mean, I go ahead,

DEVON KEELER: 1:05:16

yeah, so, like, even to the point of, like, trying to reframe the things that we tell ourselves, of, like, you know, maybe you hate cleaning, and every time you clean, you're like, Oh, this is, like, such a pain in the butt, you know, I hate Okay, either, like, change something in your situation, so maybe you get a housekeeper and you don't have to deal with that anymore. And, like, I was in that phase too, where I was like, I've never had someone clean my house before. And then I started getting someone to do it, and I was like, this, how have I not done this for so long? This is amazing.

Nicoa Coach: 1:05:45

Oh, my God, right. Oh, and I had to cancel. Must be cleaner for so long after the after John and I got separated because of just cash flow. And not kidding you today, I finally said I was like, Linda, you've got to come

DEVON KEELER: 1:06:01

back and help me privilege to be able to do something like that. But, you know, getting back to the narrative of like, changing how you phrase something in your head, instead of being like, Oh, this is such a, you know, pain in the butt that I don't want to have to deal with, maybe tapping into the, you know, I have this beautiful house that I get to live in, that I have the privilege of cleaning and keeping up after, and that this is a part of my life, and bringing that energy into it instead, of the, you know, Ugh, I don't want to do this. It's just something else on the list, and, like, all of that stuff, which I feel like is something that you had talked about before, and I remember it specifically in paying bills, like a financial thing, that you were like, I get to all of these things that I have to pay for.

Nicoa Coach: 1:06:49

Yep, I was gonna see if one of the ones I recently did I write, thank you. Thank you. Thank you every time I pay a bill, yeah, I always and I write thank you on the checks. When I use checks, and even if I have auto draft, I throw away the paper that comes in the mail, if there is one or I still mentally say it, but yeah, we have the power to shift, and this is important not only for individuals living their best life by design, but also for leaders. Their responsibility leading teams and leading others, even if they don't have official direct reports, is to be able to draw the line to back to that purpose, like we talked about when I'm washing the dishes, it's got a big story, the long game story of why those dishes being clean make me happy and create my life by design, right? Whether I'm washing them or the cleaning ladies, usually I I'm the one. Not this week. I'm very excited she's coming back. It might be once every three months, but I'm just like, I saved my money. Well, we are all powerful, and we can create and design and experience this any way we want. We cannot get it wrong. You have role modeled such a beautiful example of learning some of these skills sooner. May I ask your age?

DEVON KEELER: 1:08:13

I'm 31 Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:08:15

so you're 31 I'm 55 I wish I knew what you know when I was 31 so we have everybody listening. There is hope in the world. The generations behind us watched us role model ways they don't want to do it, and a lot of ways they do want to do it, and I think they're taking the best of it just like we did from our parents, and we need to trust the future. Um, I'm not afraid, and I am even more reassured every person I meet that's younger than me, because I know we're going to be able to turn this, this world around for the better, yeah, and at the same time, it's

DEVON KEELER: 1:08:52

too like,

Nicoa Coach: 1:08:54

right? I mean, I really, at the same time, I don't think the world is is bad, so it's just an experience. I think I probably can only say that because I'm not afraid to die, I don't. I mean, if I was afraid to die, I mean, again, it's back to attachment, right? There's probably another planet. We could go, okay, all right, Devin what? What else do you want to talk about before we hang up, we've had such a lovely conversation. I

DEVON KEELER: 1:09:31

know I feel like we would never run out of things to talk about. I'm just I'd made some notes. I want to, like, skim through it really quick. But honestly, I think we we kind of hit on on most of this. It's because you

Nicoa Coach: 1:09:42

manifested it. You totally visualized everything we were going to talk about. Did you know I was going to wear this outfit? Did you see me wearing my glasses? Like I want to know what the visualization was like. No,

DEVON KEELER: 1:09:52

it wasn't. It wasn't so much of like visual visualization just, I don't know it was a maybe it was just a projection. It is what it is.

Nicoa Coach: 1:10:03

Well, like energy attracts like energy. So I'm not surprised. We were both tuned into each other before today, and I'm really honored that you said, Yes, I love your mama, so that means I love you, and I just can't wait to meet you in person. I can't believe we haven't met yet. I

DEVON KEELER: 1:10:18

know it is kind of crazy to me, but yeah, I was excited to be here, too. Last

Nicoa Coach: 1:10:26

question I ask all of my clients before we hang up, what is the one thing you want to celebrate the most about yourself before we hang up? Devin

DEVON KEELER: 1:10:40

at risk of kind of sounding cliche.

Nicoa Coach: 1:10:44

Go for it. I

DEVON KEELER: 1:10:45

do think you know this is part of why I wanted to come talk with you. On, on this podcast, specifically today, is that I think, and I value this a lot about myself in that I'm, you know, faced with whatever is going on in my life, and I create what I want out of it. And you know, whether that's a good thing, whether that's a bad thing, you know, it, I don't think it really matters that I'm able to sort of create the things that I want when I realize that's what I want. You know what I mean. So the step there is really just kind of checking in and being like, where, where do I want to be, and how do I get there, and that I have this crazy level of confidence that I can make it happen.

Nicoa Coach: 1:11:33

It's not crazy at all. And and you believe in you, you believe in you, and that's all we have to do. My dad always said, don't forget the Nicoa factor. Yep, you know. And Devin knows Devon's got the Devon factor, and he shared that story when he was in his deepest moments of panic about his business and money and payroll and and then he said, I woke up the next day and I thought, Well, I haven't really applied the Paul factor yet. And when he told me that story, he would bring it up again. And I just think that's what you just summarized that belief in yourself, and that comes with reassurance. And there's, you know, we could talk about that for another hour and a half. I celebrate that. All right, my friend, I look forward to running into you in Durham or wherever you are, and next time you're in Wilmington, maybe we could actually have a real coffee, a real coffee with Nicoa. Oh yeah, thank you for saying yes. We did. How many times I resisted texting her over the last couple days because I was gonna say, Oh, I'm gonna talk to Devin. I was like, No, I'm not gonna, like, bring mama into it. You know, I'm surprised she didn't text. Me. She's probably waiting to see what you say, right? Who knows? Well, go off and make sure that you continue to push forward with possibility in your life. I'm quite impressed with you. I'm not surprised at all, and I'm excited to see what happens next with you in your life. Why don't we do this? Why don't we plan on talking a year from now and then you can give us an update on all yes,

DEVON KEELER: 1:13:22

okay, well, wait so we have two minutes left if we're gonna do this thing another year. What's something that you want to be different in your life

Nicoa Coach: 1:13:30

a year from Oh, my God. Well, you know what I'm going to say, because in one year, in one year from now, I will have been officially divorced. And honestly, I want to not be thinking about I want to not be thinking about a relationship with anybody other than with myself. It doesn't mean I won't be in a relationship with somebody else, but I want to be in such a loving relationship with myself that a lover is just going to be icing on the cake. Does that make sense? Yeah, was that? TMI?

DEVON KEELER: 1:14:09

It's really funny that, like, that was where you went with it, because that's kind of where mine is at to you, but a little bit opposite, like, I feel like I've spent, you know, the past five or so years really focusing on the things that make me me, and building who I am, and becoming so strong in that. And that kind of where I'm trying to focus now is being open to other people. And, you know, like you say, like attracts like. And, you know, really opening up to anything else that comes into my life. So maybe a year from now, we'll see what happens.

Nicoa Coach: 1:14:41

Let's, let's put our hands on our hearts and give our hearts permission to open up to that. Yeah, because that's really being open hearted and allowing somebody in so and they will only we will only attract where we vibrate. So I take full responsibility for all my past attractions. So I am a different woman now, and in a year from now, I'll be an even different woman.

Unknown: 1:15:03

Yes, ma'am.

Nicoa Coach: 1:15:05

So you will too, and I thank you so much. I send you off happy designing, my friend. Thank

DEVON KEELER: 1:15:11

you, you too. Love you Nicoa.

Nicoa Coach: 1:15:13

Love you too.

Unknown: 1:15:18

Thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with Nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with Nicoa and check out our website, Coffee with nicoa.com and that's Nicoa, n, i, c, O, A, we look forward to talking with you soon, and enjoy your coffee between now and then you.