S2 EP29: MARK BEAGAN

Nicoa and Mark Beagan discuss their profound career intersection and journeys around personal growth. Mark, a 20+ year HR executive, shares his transition from a corporate life to founding Beama Coaching and Consulting while navigating professional and personal challenges and self insight. He emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, emotional well-being, and living by a North Star of values like love, acceptance, and peace. A LIFE BY DESIGN journey worth hearing!

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Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:00

Music. Grab your coffee and join me nicoa For a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths, and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Hey everybody, I'm here with Mark vegan. Mark vegan, I've been singing that all day today, Mark isn't that funny.

MARK BEAGAN: 0:32

I love it. I need you to hang out with me more often. I

Nicoa Coach: 0:37

need to follow you around, kind of like that Starbucks commercial that they used to have where you go get your coffee, and then they played, oh my god. Y'all are gonna yell at me for not remembering who sings this song, but like, you get your coffee, and they go, nicoa, Nicole Nicola. And I used to, like, think that, like, when I'm walking out, I'm like, yeah, man, this Starbucks is gonna fuel me for the rest of the day. Love it. You got your coffee?

MARK BEAGAN: 1:06

I got it. I've got my favorite mug here. So we're all good. Vancouver is the city for the day. And yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:15

yeah, you got your Vancouver Starbucks mug. I didn't even bring my Starbucks mug out, but that's okay, everybody. This is actually a coffee with a friend ketchup. I mean, you and I met back in 2004

Unknown: 1:32

around that,

Nicoa Coach: 1:34

yeah, six, five, I don't even know you're in can. Are you still in Canada? Are you?

MARK BEAGAN: 1:41

Yeah, yeah, up around the Toronto area, if anyone knows. So, okay,

Nicoa Coach: 1:47

well, depending on the election results, I might be moving in.

MARK BEAGAN: 1:49

I'm just kidding. Come on up.

Nicoa Coach: 1:53

I know you guys have you're welcoming us. I know everybody. My friend, Mark biegun and I actually met during time at Thermo Fisher Scientific. And was it Thermo Fisher yet, or was it still thermo electron?

MARK BEAGAN: 2:06

While I was there, it was Thermo Fisher. And then the integration occurred, yeah, and then it

Nicoa Coach: 2:10

occurred, that's right, and, and we had a recent reconnection. Now, we've always been connected over the years. You know, you were on my human resources team and and I had gone up to visit with you, and you reached out the other day and said you wanted to share a little story on LinkedIn. And I was like, Oh God, what story are you getting ready to tell? And and before I even let you tell, I want you to start off with telling that story, just because I'm so proud of it and I'm so honored that you would be even willing to revisit it, and that it had such a big impact. But ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening to Coffee with nicoa My friend Mark biegun. Mark biegun, he's actually a 20 plus seasoned career Human Resources executive. He not only has a foundational degree in psychology. He's a certified change practitioner, certified coach like me, and he also does these amazing posts on Instagram, or, excuse me, on LinkedIn, coffee with Mark. Really, I know you don't call him that, but it's inspirational leader stories. You guys need to follow him. He now has his own company. About a year and a half ago, he went out on his own Bima coaching and consulting. He's also a father. He has two amazing kids. Is that right? Two kids, a son and daughter, yeah, two that he knows of that we're gonna we're gonna make claim to. He is an avid outdoorsman. He loves skiing and camping. Just came back from a vacation. It looked like maybe you were doing some mountain biking, some self work out there on the lake. And you're a big music lover. I've been stalking you appropriately. And then you made a post the other day that I wanted to ask about you were like the 1,000,778th reason why I love Japan. Are you a big Japanophile or whatever?

MARK BEAGAN: 4:02

I lived in Japan before I met you. So that was really deeply, yeah, formative in my life. And, you know, growing up in a small town and then going to Japan was like this, just journey of finding myself, and ironically, I found myself, at least a part of myself, in Tokyo. So there we go, yeah, oh my gosh. How long did you live there? Just over a year. Yeah, back in, you know, after the degree kind of thing, I'm so glad you did that. You know, my son is speaks Japanese and has been to Japan three times. He just turned 27 he's been going since he was I guess he went when he was 18, he worked there. He loves Japan, and we have a plan for a 2026, trip to Japan, just the two of us. So talk to you before I go. That's what a beautiful place and a beautiful place, right? Yeah, you have such a big life by design, a beautiful life, and you have a beautiful mind.

Nicoa Coach: 5:00

Or two of peace, love and acceptance. I wore my love shirt today for those that cannot see me. I'm very pleased to have you as a guest. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you're doing today and then share that story? Yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 5:16

well, it's interesting. And you know how we see the world is so unique. So when we met, I was not living a life by design, and it was kind of a tough period for me. I'll speak for myself, and I worked for you, and I remember, forgive me, my perception was always, you know, you're the big corporate person. I remember one time your role was really polished and a little reserved, and not the nicoa we see and love and all that stuff. And it was interesting, because I remember in particular one time I called you and I thought you were in Frankfurt, because you were in Frankfurt, and then you were in Kuala Lumpur, actually. And so I went from thinking I was talking to you at two in the afternoon, it was about nine or 10 at night or something like that. I'll never forget that. I just went, Yeah, I I never knew where you were going to answer your phone from, you know, I never knew where I was going to answer my phone. And, you know, yeah, I was a little uptight back then, but I it kind of came with the territory. It did. You were responsible for, as I recall, about 13, 14,000 people. So, yeah, no, I would be the same and and I was supporting so Thermo Fisher had a core business that they were very good at, and the majority of their business units were really successful. The one that I supported You could see I wasn't having fun and and I remember you reminded me one day you took me aside virtually, and just said, Mark, go out this weekend and just have some fun, because it looks like you're just not having fun at work. And it was that case, and it was, for me, it was really enlightening, because it was the first time I'd ever and first, you know, juxtapose corporate Nicola, and then now you're telling me to go out and have fun. And so there was a few things. There was the delivery from a very corporate, polished executive. And then secondly, it was the first time I had heard the word fun in the workplace. So it was, my gosh, well, it was great.

Nicoa Coach: 8:32

Well, I don't remember the conversation, but I'm really proud of myself for reminding you that life's too short to be, you know, completely freaking out all the time, and that, you know, there's kind of a game that we play in the corporate world. And what I love about our conversations over the last few weeks, and and I anticipate in this conversation is really not just about a life by design, but about leading by design. And I was a different person back then, gosh, that was such a long time ago, and I don't look I don't even look like the woman that I looked like then, like I look completely different. I feel like I look younger and healthier and happier, and not that I was unhappy, but I didn't know anything else. And I would be curious for you, I recall your I went to visit you at your facility before you remember, I came up for a visit, and I was there for a day or two. I remember it snowed, and I was thinking, Oh, I'm in Canada, and and I had to get a visa. I could be there to work. I mean, it was it's snowing, like a pain in the ass, but I do remember making it there too to see you and among other people, I guess. But tell me what it felt like to be you then, compared to what it feels like to be you now. And then we'll, we'll talk about that. How you got there. What's the difference?

MARK BEAGAN: 9:53

That was interesting. Um, so, yeah, it was. You know, in life, we have ups and downs, and I we. That was interesting. Um, so, yeah, it was. You know, in life, we have ups and downs, and I we. Realized back then that I was, you know, of course, now I know I was actually in a down at the time. Professionally, I was supporting a business that wasn't performing. And personally, my wife at the time was going and and I were going through fertility treatment. And so that's not easy whatsoever. And so, you know, eight, nine hours a day working on a business that was just fighting to turn itself around and and then coming home to just, you know, the struggles that go with that. And so it's interesting, we have these natural cycles in our life of up and down. And you know, one of those things is, is that you know when you're down, you sometimes don't even know you're in the in the trough, so to speak. You know,

Nicoa Coach: 10:57

describe how it felt inside of you, like when I think back, I felt like my energy was, like in my chest and up and I was just constantly going and trying to keep everything, like all the checklists, all of the emails, all the to do's, you know, we had blackberries back then, you know, just functioning, Just trying to almost just survive day after day after day, and you didn't know anything different. I felt kind of intense. I don't know, how would you describe the way you felt? Yeah, I don't know if this is a I'll say this, I did kind of the same thing. I just doubled down on my career, you know? And I I recognize now that's not the right way to go about things, but I kind of went and I said, Okay, Mark's going to just super focus on this, even though we sell a product that needs about four years of R and D to get back to being,

MARK BEAGAN: 11:56

you know, back to being state of the art. If we just focus, we can get there maybe faster, which was unrealistic. And I guess the key thing personally was it was very one dimensional, right? And so later in the story, we'll talk about the multiple dimensions that came to life, right? And, you know, instead of just focusing on, okay, if I just work harder, you know, everything's going to turn out right, you know. And you know, if I just work harder, maybe the fertility treatment will work. You know,

Nicoa Coach: 12:32

you're solving the problem, solve the problem, solve the problem. What was the cost of that to you, physically, emotionally during that time,

MARK BEAGAN: 12:41

that's it. Well, the relationship with my wife at that time really took a deep toll. I And I hear a lot of men are like this. Keep me honest here, but I have lost contact with all my friends. I was hollow inside, you know? And, um, good, good question, you know, it was just hollow inside, I'll just say, and it just felt like I was holding on to this thought, and it's not accurate, but just, I'm just going to climb the corporate ladder. I'm going to be a vice president at a large global company, and all will be well. That's what I was holding on to. Yeah, you know. And you did it. So you know that road very well, and

Nicoa Coach: 13:42

the, you know the cost, when I think about it, was just a lack of holistic awareness of reality, I mean, of life and why we're on this planet. I like, I just was so focused on that, in my case, the American Dream checklist, right? The Okay, well, I mean, I would work out and say I'm going to be a vice president like, I mean, it was obsession, and because I assumed if I did those things, then I would be worthy, and I couldn't even abuse that language. Then I didn't. I just thought, well, that's how you win, that that's what you're supposed to do, and that's going to create happiness. And I remember making it to the top and thinking, why am I still not completely satisfied and fulfilled? I don't, I don't understand, yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 14:32

and it's so interesting, because so that's been your journey. That was my journey. And then I'm curious. I'll answer it for myself, and I'll throw it back to you as well. But when I meet with my clients, you know, I had a very senior executive in the financial services industry who had climbed the ladder, got to where that person wanted to be, and every other dimension in that person's life needed work and. That's how I felt. I'll just say that. And and so you get to this apex of what you think is going to be the solution all your problems, and it's not it, if anything, it just turns into bigger problems. You know, it does.

Nicoa Coach: 15:14

I mean, you know, I'm not in that relationship that I was in for 25 years for a number of reasons, probably because we didn't have, we had not fostered our future together. Earlier in that dynamic of striving, we were thriving with the kids, I guess. I mean, they'll they all have therapists. I don't know. Who knows I mean, but I wish I could have in reflection, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about your and when you know Hindsight is 2020 but if we had known what we know now, I wish I had created a foundational connection with my partner, with our each of the children, in a deeper way, in a more tender and authentic and loving. I mean, we love each other, of course, but a, I see you kind of way instead of a, okay, I see you. Great, great outfit. Great, perfect party. Excellent. Everybody dressed up for Halloween. Okay, let's go, and I'm off to work again, like it was never fully present and grounded to where we could savor it. I don't know. I feel like I have that more now. What about you?

MARK BEAGAN: 16:30

Yeah, it's interesting. The first company I worked for was an EAP company, so there were psychologists

Nicoa Coach: 16:35

everywhere, yeah, Employee Assistance Program company, Yep, yeah.

MARK BEAGAN: 16:39

And one of the psychologists there, Don would always say, you know, not necessarily to myself, but he would say it to, you know, everyone. He said, You know, there's real value slowing down, speed up to your point. And I'm I count myself lucky, because when I had my kids, I think I had a little bit of awareness of the importance of slowing down and enjoying it. Of course, I could always have spent more time, but I was fortunate to work from home, and so that helped to really savor that dimension of my life and to slow down. But the price I paid was on the relationship with my spouse, right? And the way you characterized it was the same as myself. Okay, you pick up from thing. I'll pick up a pizza. You do this. And then, you know, don't even think of going away for the weekend biking, or mountain biking, or go to New York for the weekend, or anything like that, because we've got 12 things to do this week, right?

Nicoa Coach: 17:48

But also not connecting with each other in a safe space. I mean, you know, when you think about some of your journey and some of those ahas along the way, I don't really think it hit me until way after I quit my corporate job, and I quit the job, but then I like to say I created the same circus under a different tent. I was just in charge of it now, like with new benefits, I had not healed anything. I just recreated it. I'm curious now, you've only recently gone out, but you've changed companies. You've done different things. When did you start recognizing life might not be the path you thought it was supposed to be? Well,

MARK BEAGAN: 19:18

it was interesting because out of the ashes of, and I try not to do this with my clients, but I'm gonna be a little dramatic here, out of the ashes of my failure. You know, today, I call it an experiment, and we learn from it, right? Which is such a healthier way of thinking about things, but coming out of that, you know, that professional failure and the challenge of trying to build a family, I took that and was able to then we adopted two beautiful children, incredible, you know, and secondly, what I learned from, I'll be dramatic here, that failure then led into, probably professionally, my Two most satisfying engagements, one very much focused on employee engagement leadership, really being able to be strategic about how we can make a better workplace and better employee experience and so forth, which drives, of course, corporate performance, and then leading to Getting landing at that VP job, and then realizing I'm really qualified at this, not having imposter syndrome when I arrived, and yes, having that feeling like, yeah, I made it. Now, what kind of thing? Now? What? And um. Yeah, but it was out of the ashes of that failure that kind of led me to learn and move on and that. And then I came to this, because those hollow feelings of, okay, now I'm a vice president, people are calling me. We need you in New York tomorrow. Ego is like off the charts, right? You know, and on the inside I'm thinking, I'm just like, absolutely hollow inside. So I then took some time to think and reflect and

Nicoa Coach: 21:21

tell me an example, like a moment where you recognize that feeling of hollowness. And I can recall a morning waking up in Frankfurt, to your point, and not remembering for up to almost an entire minute where I was. I did not know where I was. And I remember thinking, Okay, I'm going to remember. I was so exhausted. We probably had just flown back from India, or on our way back or something. And I remember thinking, I'm gonna remember, I'm gonna remember. And then I was like, I know my name. I don't have amnesia. I'm not kidding you. I had to think the room was dark. I couldn't recognize anything. And then it was almost a full minute. And I remember thinking, Okay, wait, wait, wait, I'm in Germany. I'm in Germany. Okay, I know where I am. And then looking in the mirror, getting ready that day, and thinking, if I could just get through today, if I can get to dinner. Well, if I get to dinner, and then the next if I could just get through these meetings. And I remember thinking, What the What the fuck that life should not be if you can just get through that's my biggest memory.

MARK BEAGAN: 22:32

Yeah, it's funny originally, when you said that there was one time where I was in Washington, and I just was like that. But actually I had even a more pronounced moment. I had significant success with the Canadian this particular Canadian business. And it was really complex, because four businesses came together, so four cultures, four strategies for leadership, you know, all that stuff, right? And then I went on and did some really meaningful work, uh, across the Americas with the technology group. And I started feeling invincible. And then I got promoted to a job where my client, and I'll just use nice words, was incongruent with the values of the organization. That guy was just an asshole, yeah, and like a real asshole, and I'll never forget it, because I'll never forget it. And the reason why is because all I could think of is that I'm now at the six year mark here. I've got some big check marks beside my name, and now there's a big 1x and the x is not attributed to me, it's attributed to this jerk. And all I could think of is how quickly things can change. And that's what happened with me. It was like superstar, Rockstar, superstar Rockstar. Whatever he does, whatever team he works with, things go well and then, and then things went really south, really quick. Did

Nicoa Coach: 24:17

you get scared? What would be the emotion you I know you talk about. You know, men need to talk about their emotions. We don't control them. We need to seek to understand them. At what point did you start having a conversation with yourself about your emotions, yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 24:32

well, that is absolutely fear laden. And it was interesting because, again, just to that piece, as much as I was starting to broaden my identity with a more holistic view of myself, I'd still built up that ego that, you know, I'm a large, big, Vice President, I'm untouchable, right? I turn I worked with a team to turn this around, and I worked with another team that turned that around, and we were successful. And there's no way they're going to do a reevaluation of everything. And of course, they did, and I'll just say this, like, that. The jerk was let go. The replacement was in Europe and said, I want an HR person in our Central European Time. That happens, and like that. I'm then negotiating my exit. And so that was

Unknown: 25:30

so you were afraid. You were scared. This was not what you expected. Holy crap. And and yet, talk to me about those conversations with yourself. Was it abusive at first, or were you supportive? Or did you ask for third party help? Did you call the EAP? Tell. What you did?

MARK BEAGAN: 25:50

Yeah, I didn't do enough. You know, I should have done more, because, you know, I'm, forgive me, I was trying to look up the Jack Donaghy. I don't know if you ever watched 30 rock, you know, yeah, 30 rock, hilarious. Put my emotions in the vault and just, you know, well, you know, we know that doesn't work, right? But right, I have to say, to say, you know, when we're under extreme stress, we then go back to our original game plan. And so my original game plan was just focus and do this, and we'll push through this. The reality was, there were so many forces at play that I had to come to accept, and I was scared, scared like you wouldn't believe. I was afraid this construct of myself as a vice president was crumbling and eroding and and I was absolutely petrified. And the thing is, is this is the thing is, it happened like that. I went from hero to close to zero almost overnight. And that was really my moment, where I have to measure my life in a different way. I have to measure my life in a different way, not just this way, because, and I kind of understood it before then, but really that was the defining moment. If I can let an external organization have that much control over who I am, then there that's a real that's on me, that's not on no one else, that's

Nicoa Coach: 27:25

exactly right, taking responsibility for the dynamic, there is no promises to longevity, especially the higher up you get in these roles. I mean, what do they say the turnover rate is like, or the Yeah, it's like 95% at the top roles. I mean, none of it's guaranteed. And if you haven't fostered a foundation for who you are, you know, then you will feel terrified. And I can remember feeling terrified too, like, Oh, my God. What have I done? You know, so did you how did you do that? Did you do it all by yourself recognizing this? Or did you get any help? I'm just curious. Hard to help. Yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 28:09

I should have got help. Now, I was lucky, because globally, I had a great, I had a great boss in California. And at the same time, there was no, you know, there was no way of, kind of turning this around. And so I think, personally, i i Then really went back and I wanted to refocus, and this role pull a little bit of life by design and is I have to redefine what my North Star is, and I have to redesign, kind of the values in my life. And it's interesting because my background psychology, and part of its industrial psychology, part of its, you know, just regular psychology, and yet they both melt together right organization may have a mission. I call my life by design, a North Star. And I really went back, and I just took some time to evaluate my and a big piece was this, as I saw the video with Robert waldinger, TED talk on human adult development at Harvard, and it was that whole piece on the study had started in the 1930s and they looked at those who thrived and who didn't. And they looked at two groups. They looked at a group. This was another key defining moment, right? One group was the third year's class at Harvard, and the other was a group of folks that were from a not very privileged neighborhood. In fact, it was a pretty dis privileged neighborhood in Boston, and what they found out was the key determinant for a half happy and healthy life really wasn't around, you know, being third year at Harvard, but it was more about having deep rooted, real friendships. And that doesn't mean your life is perfect, but a close core group of people around you that you can count on through most part for thick, thick and thin. So that was kind of another key moment. And so then I put my North Star.

Nicoa Coach: 30:29

Let's stay there for a second, because friendship is pretty key. And we've we also have seen the research, I don't know who to quote or reference, but that if you have a best friend at work, that that can be a determining factor for longer term retention. And so having a BFF, you know. It's funny, I didn't actually have any BFFs until I was at thermo and I still have, you know, Susan Gagne. She's my best friend forever from my corporate environment. And so it's for those of you listening, you know, where are your friendships and are you fostering them? Are you making the phone call. I have a guy I did some work with right after my last job, and every about 12 to 18 months, I pick up the phone and call him, just check in with him, and we, you know, we did some work together, but he's a friend. So yeah, it sounds like that was critical for you, and it sounds like you had some good support from your boss too. So yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 31:30

I'm happy to say he's still my friend. And, you know, I'm even taught, you know, we talked, you know, we're still friends and and so I kind of just wanted to, you know, have friends and family. I wanted to have fun. I wanted to have deep personal relationships with my children. I wanted to cultivate friendships. And I use that word really importantly, meaning, you know, everyone's busy, so I make a little bit of for the people that I consider to be really close friends. I make an effort to be there for them, and, um, as long as they reciprocate to a certain level, that's great, you know what I mean. But I think you have to cultivate your friendships, because everyone's busy. Um,

Nicoa Coach: 32:20

yeah, these are your values. This is you know, you and I have done so much work integrating companies. At the end of the day, we rarely do that for ourselves and our families. So we know how to set up a culture. We say, here are our values, here's the behaviors we're going to measure you against, and this is what success looks like, and this is what is acceptable. This is what is not acceptable. This is how we'll be rewarded, and this is how we'll celebrate. We do all that work for the corporation, and yet we come home, and I remember trying to have this activity where I had each person in the family's name written on a piece of paper on the kitchen island. And I was like, let's write down what we're thankful for for each other, and let's just out of the five people in our family, myself included two and half of one page of the third person. They just were snarky and joked because it was uncomfortable. They wrote silly things. They weren't comfortable being generous with saying why they loved each other, what they were grateful for, and that's an example of the Miss. I'm like, wow, I couldn't foster that. Didn't foster that. But it's never too late. It is never too late. So talk to me about you got that set of values you've set forth your true north or your North Star. At what point did you start seeing an impact in your satisfaction and your you know your happiness well,

MARK BEAGAN: 33:49

and it was interesting. And I'm a little concrete, so I'm a little concrete in the way that I think. And so I created, and it was funny though I made it like a because my frame of reference was corporate. I made quarterly goals. You know,

Nicoa Coach: 34:07

I love it. I mean, why not use the tools you have. Yeah, and

MARK BEAGAN: 34:12

it was so interesting because I had known the Gallup research, and then I read while Robert waldinger, I thought, Geez, it only makes sense about the friendships in my corporate life. I set goals about structure and strategy and leadership and so forth. Why don't I do this about fun and why don't I do this about having deep personal connections with my family? Funny enough, when I started doing this, I put emotional kind of goals at the bottom, because, you know, I did it and I find it now. It's now risen to almost the top. You know, my family and friends, health, and then my emotional well being is right up there, because I

Nicoa Coach: 35:03

found emotional well being. What does that mean? Well, that's

MARK BEAGAN: 35:07

where my I think my value statements kind of came through meaning I value peace. So am I doing something that disrupts my peace? And there's days when I go out and I said, You know what, when I said that to that actually, I was in New York City two weeks ago on vacation with my kids, and I said something to someone, a stranger, and I said, I walked back and went, that wasn't peaceful. That wasn't nice, you know. And so I couldn't go back and say, Hey, excuse me. I was a jerk, you know. But I sat there, did

Nicoa Coach: 35:40

you tell us what happened? You gotta tell us. Okay, tell us what happened.

MARK BEAGAN: 35:44

I was actually why? Yeah, okay. Please don't throw any. Hang out me, I won't. Oh, it was actually in Washington, like, and this is a real I feel bad about this. We're in Washington, DC, and there's the Congress building. And I don't know if you've ever been to Havana Cuba, but the exact same architect did the same building in Havana. Oh, cool. Funny enough. I drove around Cuba because I'm Canadian, and I literally parked my little Volkswagen Jetta that we rented right in front of, what would it be the congressional building of Cuba, right? Yeah. But then I saw some tourists, and I went, Oh yeah, that's just like, and I knew this. I said, this is just like the one in Havana, knowing that's a bit of a politically divisive statement, right? It was the same architect, all that stuff and but I kind of walked away, and you I could see on their face that they didn't like that comment, and I just kind of stepped back and I said, That's not peaceful, that's not loving the environment in the US is a little bit, I'll just say, you know, talk about politics, you got to be a little careful. And I guess that's a big thing that I just checked in with myself and said, Mark, just, you know, yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 37:06

because I often ask the question, you know, what would peace do in this situation? You know, what would love do? What would calm do right now? What would happiness look like right now? What would Joy look like? And if people can begin to ask themselves these questions, then they might be able to access it more easily. And if they can't, then there's another question, right? You and I as coaches know that this is, this is kind of how you peel back the onion of that way of being, that that might be hollow, or at least fulfilled as as we'd like it to be.

MARK BEAGAN: 37:40

It was interesting just, I just got to let you know, though, for all the Americans that are mobilizing energy right now and ready to storm the borders, I just want to let you know that by the time I got to Abraham Lincoln, you know. And you've been to Washington so, you know, so by the time I got to I think it's, forgive me, I'm Canadian. Is that the Gettysburg Address up on the wall? I think so. And I walked up to a stranger and went, it's one of the most beautiful pieces of literature I've ever seen in my life. I'm a Canadian, and I'm in awe. And I said, That's the mark that needs to show up, you know?

Nicoa Coach: 38:16

Yeah, I mean, it's about embodiment, and not just what we say and do, which is what you and I did for a very long time. Did we really embody, you know, the fun and the friendship and the and the way of being that we hoped to leave behind as a legacy. And when you contacted me the other day, I was like, Oh, wow, oh, good. There was a part of me that was actually embodying that I actually did embody my truth whenever I could. And mainly that occurred mark in the one on ones. And I hope I was kind to you when you called me at nine or 10 at night. I clearly I took the call, so

MARK BEAGAN: 38:55

I was in shock, because I'm pretty sure it actually, I don't think it was nine o'clock at night. I think it was, I think it was like midnight or something. I suspect you were still on Eastern Time, or something like that. So clearly,

Nicoa Coach: 39:12

I didn't know where the hell I was or what time it was, because, well, let's talk about now. So some of the work you do now, I mean, you're you really have shifted into a new way of being. How would you describe how it feels to be you now, after that kind of evolving, and that evolution of of Mark began, Mark began,

MARK BEAGAN: 39:34

nice, yeah, I, you know, so I came out of that kind of, you know, and again, a little bit judgmental frame, but, you know, out of the ashes twice, so to speak, and then coming out with that, that kind of North Star and those set of values, And then in the last two or three years, there was some deep, deep epiphanies for me and one, and they really came from I went to this program in Boston. It was about a six month program at the Gestalt international study center in Cape Cod. I signed up because I wanted to go biking in Cape Cod and then learn on the side. And then another wave of covid came, and I spent the entire course staring at this screen. But one of there was, I guess, two things that I really learned from that, and like this was life changing for me. One was and the first one's really about awareness, and it's we change when we become ourself. And meaning, you know, back when as a vice president, if you said to me. Even though everything was going south, I'm going to just mobilize all my energy and double down on being the greatest vice president of all time. That wasn't who I was or who I wanted to be. I I climbed the ladder. I got to where I always thought was going to be the pinnacle of success, and realized it was hollow. And so what I realized is who I am, are all those things within the North Star and those values and stuff. And so it was really easy to mobilize energy and do it. I don't wake up in the morning and say, like when I was at the steps of Congress. Obviously that wasn't the right thing to say, but it was very easy just to check in with myself and go, Wait a minute. That's not who I am, you know. So awareness

Nicoa Coach: 41:40

becomes the space of reflection or your behavior or a feeling or a language, you know, a statement. What? When you started talk a little bit about that program so people understand what the foundation of that program is intended. Because, yeah, it

MARK BEAGAN: 42:01

was a coaching program, and it was founded on, you know, people change when they feel it in their gut too. That's the other thing. So it's about seeking who we are. And then the second key epiphany out of there was something called the cycle of experience. Now, various psychological schools call it different things, but basically what the cycle of experience is is that we'll change when we have something that's visceral and not feeling right. So it starts with our emotions, and then once we under and to your point, what you had said, once we seek to understand what our emotions are saying to us, we don't control them. They're those snap decisions, right, or snap things that happen in the back of our brain, but we can seek to understand those emotions and and then process those and then mobilize energy and take action. And it's interesting, as someone with a degree in psychology, I understood that, but then taking that into my coaching practice was just life changing because, and I'll be a little vulnerable here before then, I had a consultant's mindset, ah, you have a broken WYSIWYG. I fixed five of them. Do do ABC, and your WYSIWYG will get fixed. And maybe 20% would fix their WYSIWYG or whatever it was, right? And because it wasn't visceral, really wasn't bothering them. It wasn't what they were, you know, it wasn't their experience or their priority in life. Their life, by design, is different, right? And so when I started to really just lean into curiosity and understand, really help people understand who they are and process those emotions and thoughts, and once they've done so, then we're then, then we can get into, okay, let's Look at, let's try. Let's experiment with A or B or C or D or E, right?

Nicoa Coach: 44:14

And how does that feel? I mean, ultimately, you're right. It's, it's because no one, I don't know about you, but I don't think I, I think I'm still figuring out who I am. And I, I did this coach training recently, the Hogan assessment. And I had done it in 2007 and I did it again in 2024 and in 2007 I was at all scripts. I had left thermo and I was down here in Raleigh, North Carolina. And there was massive change. Now, the Hogan is pretty damn consistent, but there was some massive, not all of it, but just a handful of massive changes. And I said, in the the debrief, I said, you know why? Because my mindset was based on the way in which I thought I was supposed to be, not the way I've then uncovered that I naturally am. So my natural way of being is much more introverted, much less controlling. Um, it's my actually, my natural way. I know y'all don't believe me, but and the differences were clear, and I'm more interested in feeling good and esthetically surrounding myself with nice things that are that please me, and I'm just, I don't even know if we know who we are when we come in onto this earth, or if we're just so quickly brainwashed and and, you know, told to act in a certain way. I often say that maybe now is just the remembering. We are remembering our wholeness, remembering who we naturally are. How did you come to understand who you really are and are you still in it like me? Yeah, we're

MARK BEAGAN: 45:59

all figuring that out. It's funny. You reminded me. You made me think about something after that, EAP company, I worked in a financial service company that I'll just say this would get sued a lot, and so I spent two years settling lawsuits, and that's for those who know me, that's just not my thing. I can do it. Trust me, I can do it, but it's not my thing. Like I would just show up with my checkbook and say, okay, yeah, you were wronged. How many zeros am I going to write here on the check? Right? And I remember people who I knew, though, would we be at a party? And they'd come up to me and say, Mark works at this financial institution, like, let's stand up straight in front of him, and all that. And all I can think of is. And it's a great example of those experiments where I do this little thing, you know, let's try an experiment kind of thing, where I'm going to have a lot of status working for this financial service company and all that. And then you get there and you realize it isn't who you are, you know, yeah. And so I think that yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 47:12

one of the main reasons I quit, with all due respect to that previous company, one of the reasons I quit is because there was an inconsistency. There was such a big gap between what my aligned values were and how I wanted to behave and show up as a leader from what many of the other leaders were doing that. It not that it was right or wrong. It just wasn't my way. It just wasn't my authentic way. And I remember watching the news during that time. This was when Lehman Brothers collapsed. I mean, everything, you know, we were about to do the deal. We were dialing for dollars. And I remember thinking, Oh, because at first, like, Bank of America was having trouble all sorts of you know, this was the big collapse. This was 2009 and I remember thinking, 2008 2009 I thought, where's HR? I'm watching the news, thinking, where's human resources? And then I thought, holy shit, I'm human resources. And how am I focusing appropriately in this dynamic in our company? And where am I? Am I showing up? Am I capable? You know, what am I really doing? And honestly, I'm not sure I was prepared. I know I needed to leave. I know it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. So did you ultimately leave that dynamic because you felt that it wasn't who you were? Absolutely,

MARK BEAGAN: 48:30

absolutely. And you know, that's it. So, you know, you have these values, even if they're not well aligned, you know, when you're, quote, incongruent with culture, right? And the culture was very risk and regulatory. I talked to somebody who thrived in the financial services sector. And she said to me, yeah, it's very risk averse, and it's very regular, highly regulated. So their strategy is very focused on risk and regulatory compliance, not on many of those things that you know, you and I have worked on that bring out a thing. And that was helpful, because, um, that culture wasn't bad. It just wasn't the culture. It wasn't the culture for me, yeah, you

Unknown: 49:18

know, that's kind of what this Hogan was showing us, too, is, how do you fit people into a culture appropriately? And you know, even Jack Welch used to stay at when I worked at GE, he he would say, Look, you may not be an A player here, that's okay. Go be an A player somewhere else. You know, if this is not the game you want to play, then pack up your bag and let's move it along. I mean, I think a lot of people, and those of you listening, if you've been complaining, let me just ask a question to the audience. Have Do you tend to complain and talk about your boss, the company, their behaviors in a manner that is judgmental and resentful. Do you talk about this at your at the cocktail party? Do you talk about this at the end of the day with your partner? Are you frustrated? Are you overwhelmed and do you just wish they'd show up for you and do things just a little bit differently so that you could feel better? You're probably in the wrong place, because unless you're going to keep going up through the ranks and become the leader that's going to make change towards that way of being, then get the hell out. Otherwise, embrace and accept what is and then try to influence it. Take responsibility to make the changes. Otherwise, you're just being taught what you don't want, what you don't like, either culturally or when you do, become a leader somewhere else, you'll know not to behave in that way and. There's value at all, that's my philosophy,

MARK BEAGAN: 50:51

no, and it's interesting, because I'll just use my little analogy about out of the ashes, the two major times in my life where I felt like I was in the ashes, I actually came out far stronger and more authentic to myself, and I phoned judgment, ideally, except for when I met the foot. By the way, it's a beautiful building. I just want to

Nicoa Coach: 51:15

let you know, you feel so bad. You're so funny. Yeah, I've seen

MARK BEAGAN: 51:19

those, you know, F 35 they're beautiful pieces of engineering. Don't strike me down. But you know, out of that, now I think to myself, let's try this. Let's do an experiment. And if it works, it's great. And if it's not, maybe it's not my cup of tea. And you know, when I'm coaching my clients, I'll say, Hey, do you want to try something for, you know, fun? Sometimes my clients say, Sure, sure. And they actually their eyes light up because they really do want to try it, and they have this perception that they really want to do this, and then they come back two weeks later and say, Yeah, that's not me, you know. And there's a little bit of shame there, because it's like, oh, we failed. I was supposed to try this experiment and all that nice. And then I just say, hey, as an experiment, and you learned you don't like doing ABC, you know? Yeah, it's a good thing they use

Nicoa Coach: 52:22

that word experiment. And I love that you said fun at least three or four times already. So clearly, I embedded this concept. I get take full credit for your fun factor.

MARK BEAGAN: 52:33

With my kids, we were mountain biking and roasting marshmallows and we were paddling. Um, oh,

Nicoa Coach: 52:40

I love it. I saw the pictures on Instagram. You had, you guys had a blast, you know? Yeah, we could talk all day, as I say to every, every guest, you know, I think you know, for for me and for you, we've been, we've played a game, and the game served us very well in many ways. I don't have any regrets about those jobs, I mean, or the companies. I mean, it was, it was what you it was what you did. Not everybody went and did those things, but we did, you know, we went and did the big corporate thing, but I'm so proud of both of us for our ability to change. And I would, I'd love to hear your advice or insights about change, and I know you are, you know, a certified change practitioner. Change is people's biggest fear, right? Change? Oh my God. I want to control it. I want to know what's going to know what's going to happen. Like my biggest practice right now is not knowing, just not knowing. I mean, I'm going through a divorce, I'm I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know where that next project's going to come from. Being an entrepreneur in and of itself for 15 years, you know? Oh well, I don't know. And not knowing, and not trying to go find out and figure it out, has been a practice. It's my experience experiment. Right now, I'm, I'm having fun, like I'll, I'll get ready to call and check on a contract that's pending, and I'll think, no, no, wait, wait. Do I need to call them? Can I be patient? Can I wait instead of check in. So that's for me, that's how I am managing change and learning how to allow and accept and relax. Talk about change for you, and any advice, yeah,

MARK BEAGAN: 54:21

and I'll do a build on the you know, kind of my North Star and where my priorities lie and those values. And when I do a check in here, I guess here's my last thing. And it's interesting, because I was introduced to this concept by the CEO of North America, who is ex McKenzie, and then I found out it was actually a clinical psychological term, at least that's my understanding, is you can have a virtuous path, meaning there's, in my case, love, acceptance, kindness and Peace, and ideally, the people around me then exhibit and receive that love and kindness, and it builds this beautiful, virtuous path of love, peace and acceptance, right? Yes, and the opposite of that is the vicious cycle I show up, I'm negative, I'm frustrated. It projects that, and then the people around me see that, and it just spirals down. And so I think my number one thing for now is, even when I'm not at the. Steps of Congress in the US I check in, am I still working towards my true north? Am I living my values? And am I on a virtuous path? And if I'm not, let's course correct right away, because life's too short to live that vicious cycle, and I see people who've gone down that slippy slide, and it's not a good thing. Well,

Nicoa Coach: 56:15

you're talking about energy, and at the end of the day, like energy attracts like energy. So if you I love this analogy, you can choose this virtual virtuous path or the vicious path. That's a really great reminder. That's an easy thing to remember. And you have to ask yourself, though, I think that's it. The key right for any change is, you know, am I aligned to what matters most to me? And is this choice, you know, honestly, is it going to make me feel good or feel bad? And if it makes me feel good. How sustainable is that? Is it a long term? Is it persistent, right? Is it pervasive in my life? Or do I actually feel drained and regretful or filled with shame afterwards in any way, shape or form? And that takes practice. You just keep asking yourself, I mean, it sounds like that. How did you get to that practice today? Was it the training that really taught you how to create space for self observation?

MARK BEAGAN: 57:18

Yeah, it was. And there were professors in Boston, Jamie and Stuart, and I learned to coach, but I feel like and and I can give that to my clients, but I learned so much about myself along the way too. And Stuart in particular is a bit of a in a kind, loving way, a bit of a, you know, shines. Maybe I won't point the finger, but put the mirror up and say, Hey, have you realized how you're showing up today? And it's a little hard to hear that message, but it's a good one, right? It is.

Nicoa Coach: 57:56

And every coach, so this is important for people, don't hire a coach that has not gone through coach training, because majority of Coach Training, the really good programs, I guess I should say, really go deep the first six months, or at least, you know, three months, you're reflecting on who you are, and that work is critical. And don't hire a coach that doesn't have a coach, because it's ever changing. We are evolving constantly. And I love that, that you're an example of it. I'm an example of it. We can't do the work and help hold safe space for others if we haven't done that work for ourselves. Really, it doesn't mean we're not still learning and we don't know it all. But I'm glad that you shared that. I really,

MARK BEAGAN: 58:45

I always can't wait till I go into the ashes again, you know, because the next chapter after that is always exciting. So Oh, my God,

Nicoa Coach: 58:54

I'm glad you said that, because, you know, I feel like I'm in the the worst ashes of my life with this decision to throw up. I feel like I pulled the pin on a grenade and threw it into what appeared to be the perfect life, because it wasn't what I've wanted. And, you know, it wasn't what we both hoped it would be. And I'm really proud of myself, and it is most terrifying thing to do. But again, when you are in the ashes, when you are in the flames, trust that it is better on the other side, you are going to be the Phoenix that comes out of that I know, like I know, like I know, or I would not have put myself in such risk and such uncertainty and and fear. Talk to me about what you love most, about your life by design now,

MARK BEAGAN: 59:50

I believe in myself. It sounds really that took a long time to get there. Yeah, I believe in myself. What I'm doing in this hopefully virtuous path that I'm on is bearing fruit. And I started my own company, and it's a slow, you know, it's a slow journey to to getting there, and we're well on our way. Thank you. And I wake up every morning, and, you know, it's funny, I had a great client this morning, and in three sessions, she's already night and day, different than where she was and so and that comes from the fact that I do believe in myself, and it's not a false statement by any means. Some days I have to say that to myself, don't get me wrong, but I do. So it, you know, going through those emotions, putting some thought and then mobilizing energy and doing stuff, all starts with, I believe in myself, so I say that all the time I

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:00

love that. And it is about that self love and recognizing that you're worthy of whatever success or dream or you know, life by design that your deepest heart desires, you're worthy of it, and I believe in you. And you know my I did a an espresso shot about that, my father used to say, don't forget, nicoa. You haven't applied the nicoa factor yet, because you are unique. Mark. You are unique. I'm unique. Every single person listening. It has a unique offering, and that's all you have to hang your hat on, is you, and we're all here to help you, whether it's through coaching or just as you know, our voices on this podcast for you, for everybody today. Oh, I'm so excited that we've had this conversation. It's so beautiful. Tell everybody how they can contact you. Of course, as I always say, I'll put stuff in the show notes, but I don't believe everybody reads the show notes. So tell us where we can find you. Yeah, mark@markbegan.com

MARK BEAGAN: 1:02:01

and www.markbegan.com and happy to connect, and if I can provide some help or assistance, coaching, consulting, organizational change, happy to help out. And

Unknown: 1:02:18

I know you would be a great help. And you and I have such a nice, long friendship. I'm so really, really pleased that we've reconnected. And hey, I don't know about you, but I had fun. Did you have fun? This

MARK BEAGAN: 1:02:31

was great. I was a little nervous going in and it you made it nice and easy. It was lovely. And even told, like I told you my story about, you know, being at the steps of Congress. So there we go. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:02:44

I have global listeners too. So it's not just Americans that are going to be judging you. Mark,

MARK BEAGAN: 1:02:50

yes. Okay,

Nicoa Coach: 1:02:52

we, thank you. We thank you. You're amazing, and I know that we'll reconnect. I'd love to touch base with you a year from now. Let's see how the business is going and see if you've gone through the ashes again. And I know I can't wait for a year from now, I know I will be out of these ashes, and then everything will be on the upswing again for the next phase of our life by design. So will you have a date with me a year from today? Absolutely. All right. Put it on your calendar. Man, thanks for joining me on coffee with nicoa. Thanks, Nicola,

Unknown: 1:03:26

thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with nicoa and check out our website, Coffee with nicoa.com and that's nicoa, n, i, c, O, A, we look forward to talking with you soon, and enjoy your coffee between now and then we.