S2 EP31: RG SHORE, THE OCEAN IN ME

NICOA and RG SHORE, author of the award winning memoir THE OCEAN INSIDE ME, engaged in a profound dialogue about the importance of recognizing and transcending labels, connecting the head and heart through meditation, and transforming personal energy to create positive change in the world. Through their conversations, they explore the themes of identity, injustice, and the true nature of reality, emphasizing the importance of empathy and open dialogue in addressing these complex issues while sharing some insights into somatic work and meditation. Everyone's LIFE BY DESIGN is different and meditation is a doorway to peace no matter what your story!

THE OCEAN INSIDE ME is a spiritual memoir about healing racial trauma as a person of color incarcerated in an almost all-white prison. Amidst harsh conditions and blatant racism, R.G. Shore learned to meditate by going into his body, befriending his shadow, and learning to sit with the traumas held by his younger self. A Master in meditation, R.G.  found a way to liberate his inner child in the most unlikely place, and is now offering a path for you to find healing as well.

REACH OUT TO RG at his non profit NORTHWEST WISDOM
Follow RG on INSTAGRAM

Buy your copy of YOUR LIFE BY DESIGN: A Coffee With Nicoa Self-Care Coaching Journal
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Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:00

Music. Grab your coffee and join me nicoa For a caffeinated conversation about life. Hey everybody, welcome to Coffee with nicoa. This is nicoa, and I have the pleasure of having a award winning author. I did, I did check that out. RG, so RG, Shore is with us today, and RG actually found me. I think right. Isn't that how we got connected? Yeah, I watched your podcast or listened to you on with Dr Rick so Ah, yes, Dr Rick diamond, the story healer. What a phenomenal conversation that was. And thank you for watching and listening to that interview, even if, if I get a listener, even if it's through these amazing guests. I love getting new listeners, so I appreciate you reaching out and asking to participate, because when you sent me information and I started stalking you as I do, I got super excited. So let me do the quick intro, and then we'll jump right in. I know you're going to have a lot of insights for our listeners today. Everybody, please welcome RG shore, spiritual counselor, energy healer, Reiki practitioner, not just an award winning author. I mean, you have created a nonprofit called northwestwisdom.org everybody should go check that out right now. And you have found an ability to really help heal the world with your expertise, your education, your skills. You specialize in embodied spiritual counseling, healing energy. You leverage the techniques of visualization, meditation. You're a Reiki practitioner, and you really mastered, and have started really helping your clients with the power of grounding, and it's interesting. I'll share right now, my feet are on a grounding mat. I don't know if those work. You'll have to tell us. What do those work? No,

Unknown: 2:13

I'd be lying if I told you I knew

Nicoa Coach: 2:17

you're like, Could we please go get outside on the real ground? Thank you. What I love about your background too is that you were able to take historic trauma and experiences as a person of color coming from a marginalized community, to turn your gifts now into service for people in similar similar circumstances to your own, and it's kind of an interesting story you have. We won't go into great detail, but you have a background that is rooted in some trauma, including being incarcerated, which is intense, and talk about a shock to a life by design, you're going down one path, and then all of a sudden you have to rewrite your story, and I think that is probably the essence of what we will talk about today, because a life by design is my entire focus, and it's never too late. I hope our listeners remember that no matter what your circumstances, you can start fresh every day with a clean sheet of paper. So, you know, I do want to highlight, though, that award you got for the book we have. We're putting you in the same category. I mean, everybody pause and listen. Tick not Han and Brene Brown received this same gold Nautilus award. Tell us more about that recognition before we go into your story.

Unknown: 3:40

I mean, you're just keep fluffing my pillow.

RG SHORE: 3:45

I just, it's, it's funny, because, like, I always start off by saying, and I'm a formerly incarcerated person, because, like, the reality is, we're all these labels, and we're none of these labels. So right, no, again, it's, it's easy to be like, here's my resume, but the resume is the life experience. It's not like the labels that you wear with them. And so again, I'm very grateful and honored to be, you know, selected for the Nautilus Book Award. And it just, it's such an honor. And also, it's just another label. It's just another thing, right? And so you try not to get too attached to those things. Obviously, they help in promoting the book and getting my work out there. But, you know, a part of this whole thing that we're in these life by designs is, is understanding that, like, the story, is much larger than any one thing. And so reframing the story means zooming really, really far out and even beyond your own lifetime, I think, and and that's that's really, really important, and beginning to understand what's it mean to, like, accept these wounds and heal these wounds and address these wounds, and love these parts and these parts, and understand that they're all part of the same part.

Unknown: 5:00

Art. Well, you zoom out large enough, you realize threads are just part of a much larger tapestry.

Nicoa Coach: 5:07

And so, oh, and you have a beautiful tapestry. I mean, I didn't even mention that you have this beautiful wife. You were recently married, you know, few years back, and you guys have created this beautiful life that is very purpose driven. You know, I love looking at people's lives to your point, the tapestry is unique for every single person. And a lot of times, people get hung up in feeling just so different, thinking that's a bad thing, thinking that they're so unique to their circumstances. But it is in that uniqueness, I think that makes us all the same, that we're all weird and we're all unique, and we all have different traumas, and we're supposed to uncover them in the journey, the hero's journey of our life, right? And figure out how to heal them, so that, you know, when we're finished, at least in this version, maybe we feel a little bit more knowing we remember our wholeness, our oneness. Talk to us a little bit about who you were before you found meditation and wrote this beautiful book. Tell us about the context of your life by design prior to all of this.

Unknown: 6:16

Yeah, I you know brown person, white in a white space.

Nicoa Coach: 6:25

You know, I

Unknown: 6:26

I've always been a creative person. I've always been really into music and art, and actually, I've always been into spirituality, whether I was prepared for it or not. And so I've always been me, and I think the larger thing is accepting the meanness, right? Like accepting the whole the whole thing is been a life journey, and still continues to be that life journey. But if you know, if you're wanting, sort of, like the Wikipedia points or like, it's like, okay, I'm I was born in India. I was adopted. I was put in an orphanage as a baby, you know, don't have any idea of birth parents, which is, you know, sort of the archetype there is the abandonment wound, right? The if you don't know who you where you come from, how do you know where you're going? Type of work, and adopt it to white, a white family. Very, very loving people in the Pacific Northwest, full of their own shit, right? Like, I mean, with grace and love that everybody has their wounds, right? And, you know, I think a wound that people aren't talking enough about is, what does it mean to be a person of color, adopted to white family in this country? Because it's just like, it's not an people think that they're saving babies, maybe. But if you don't have the like, if you don't have the like, wherewithal and ability to understand what kind of trauma that can bring, and you're not sure, going to have those conversations, then you know it. It means a lot of isolation and loneliness and abandoned, I mean all the stuff growing up and so sure, there's a lot of that involved in my past, of like, even not necessarily being aware of those things, but always being aware. It's a both. And it's like my body's aware, even though my brain goes into into a different sort of survival mode. And one of the things I talk about in my book is that, you know, there's sort of three different survival energies that we that are more common, which is fight, flight or freeze. But the fourth that that people don't talk enough about is actually called fawn fawning, which is the ability to essentially adapt to any situation. So you have created this ability, almost like your superpower, to like you're because you're different, because you don't fit in, because you know that you there's something different about you. You find these ways of adapting, and I became the best at it. You know, my therapist in my 30s said that I was maybe the best she's ever seen.

Nicoa Coach: 9:04

Really give us an example of where you found, like, is it just simply, like, adapting into the personality of somebody you're with? Or,

Unknown: 9:14

yeah, like, I mean, essentially, it's, it's you walk into a room and you can read it so perfectly, you know exactly who you need to be in order to kind of disguise yourself. So, so there's a lot of pros, right? But the con is you never, you grow up, never really knowing who you are. There's a there's a disassociation with your own identity. But I mean, like I So, I was born in India. I'm five two on a really good day. I'm fine at war with roller skates, right? I'm a tiny little human being in this white world. And, you know, I was in middle school when 911 happened. So, so there, and my book talks a lot about that towards the latter half the book. But, but there's a reality that, like, I went from worrying about pimples and girls liking me. To like, what does it mean to be accused for attack in New York as a 13 year old, right? Like, so there's that level of survival energy. And so, you know, a lot of people of color, especially in the Pacific Northwest, that I've talked to, sort of had that same sentiment of, like survival mode and so, I mean, when you're talking about fawning, I mean, I got good at everything else other than just being who I was, right? So, good at art, good at music, good at singing, good at making friends, good at making people laugh, good at sports, good at the whole thing, other than just being whoever it is that makes me, me?

Nicoa Coach: 10:42

Well, first of all, I want to tell you, there's a phrase that is an inside joke in our family, and it is this, everybody's taller on rollerblades

Unknown: 10:53

to share. Yeah, no, I love that.

Nicoa Coach: 10:56

So just remember, everybody's you're always taller, you're just the right size at the same time. So can you share a little bit about some of this racism? I know that when you were incarcerated, you talk about how you were in the midst of a sea of white men who were racist and horrifying. I mean, have you had, I mean, every person of color and every woman and you know, someone who is different has probably had some sort of racist or experience where they were, you know, you know, suppressed in some way. What are some of those experiences that really have helped you become a better server to others now where you can see value in the experience?

Unknown: 11:41

Yeah, I mean, I think the goal as a you know, person who's seeking spiritual embodiment and helping other people's people heal through that, is being able to see that there's always value, no matter where you are. And that's tough, right? People say Hindsight is 2020. Tried doing it as it as it's happening in real time, you know. And so you know, my book, The Ocean inside me, is all about my experiences going learning to go into my body while incarcerated, surrounded by neo Nazi sympathizers and white supremacists and as obviously a person of color, knowing that like I'm in survival mode, but what if I've tried to be in thriving mode in the least likely place? Like, what does that mean? And so that's what my book is primarily about. Is, how do I while experiencing like, explicit, like condensed version, heightened version of racism, how can I go into the body and create this place where I'm really addressing things that that go way beyond just sort of service level addressing? And with that said, to answer your question, these are not things that just happen in prison, right? And and what I come to is I come to realize, oh, and I write this in my book, prison is not a reflection of prison. Prison is a reflection of America. So the micro is always a reflection of the macro. And what's happening out on a larger scale is happening on within the cellular level of everybody's body. And when things were like exploding in the media or exploding because, you know, because of, for example, the murder of George Floyd right like when that happened, I was incarcerated, and clearly I'm inside in an area where you can't leave and you don't have access to everything else going around you. And yet that was felt in the prison, that that energy, that that heightened sense of injustice, was felt. And so that's, that's one example of like, again, whatever's happening out there is happening in here, and you can't heal out there until you heal in here. It's all it's all connected.

Nicoa Coach: 13:57

RG, how did that feel for you? What? What did that feel like being in there, in the midst of all that,

Unknown: 14:36

like another day. I mean, I mean, you know, it's right, yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny. I think to a lot of people, especially white people, it was like a big deal. But like, to a person of color, it's just, just another day, you know? And again, it's, it's, it's bringing the, it's bringing the spotlight to the reality that, like, well, like, walk in my shoes for a minute, right? Just for a minute, walk in my shoes. And part of the healing process was like, oh, even as a person of color in this white prison, no one's going to walk in my shoes until I walk in their shoes. And so there was a level of I have to acknowledge the white supremacist within me in order for the white supremacist to acknowledge the brown person within themselves. And that that there's a level of healing there that, like takes all ego out of equation and takes all level of this or that, or tribalism, or this camp or that camp out right? And so I ended up studying the law while I was incarcerated, and ended up becoming essentially the jailhouse lawyer for the very men who were oppressing me. And so there was a level of of as I'm doing the meditation, as I'm saying, okay, universe, I'm ready. Let's, let's do this thing, the meditation, if it's really working, and if it's really authentic, it'll always lead to that type of healing where there's a social justice component and then a compassion towards the very people who are oppressing you. And if that isn't happening, then you know, there's some other things that need to be addressed within yourself first.

Nicoa Coach: 16:25

So RG, tell me the I mean, were you fortunate to be raised by a family that was already having these types of conversations. I mean, at what point, what was your conversion point to say, Holy, crap, I'm, you know, I gotta do something here to survive and thrive. You know, what was the turning point to meditation, even? I mean, how did you learn all this? Yeah,

Unknown: 16:51

that's a really good question. You know, I think so. I studied religious studies in college. I was drawn towards it. From age 18, I grew up in a Christian home, sort of a Catholic Christian, Pacific Northwest home. Thankfully, my parents were not like very like, you have to believe in these things, but it was still a, you know, a Christian home, and yet my body and my book talks a lot about this is my body physiologically knew I was from the east, so I was raised in the west with Western cultural ideas and beliefs and systems that my Eastern body always didn't really necessarily sit with though I didn't have the wherewithal of my brain to recognize that my body knew something was up. And so which,

Nicoa Coach: 17:39

what do you mean by that? So your body knew something was up, meaning that it didn't feel quite like describe that I really somatics are a big piece of the work I do as a coach as well. And so for our listeners to begin to connect that head and heart right the head and the body. That integration is tricky. How did you start to see and feel the disconnect? How would you describe that?

Unknown: 18:03

Yeah, you know, we live. We live in here. We live in the thought that's our brain is wired to just believe brain, right? And there's, there's a there's a saying that I like to tell my clients, which is, don't believe everything you think you know. And there's a reality you're not just your thoughts. And until you learn to sit and sit and sit back behind the thought, you are just, you're just looking at the movie screen, thinking that that the movie is the only thing exists. But you're just sitting in a theater. That's the reality is. You're sitting in a theater and you're watching all these thoughts go by, and you've you've been convinced that these thoughts are just the only thing that exists, and so the body, the the embodiment that I'm talking about is once you decide to pause, once you decide to participate in that stillness and say, Okay, I'm going to take a step back and observe and become an observer or a witness to everything that's happening you, you then are saying, I'm willing to actually empower myself and give myself a little bit of agency in this story that we're talking about, because I'm not a victim to the story. I'm a co creator of the story. So I think a big part of that shift that needs to happen is, what if you are not just the thoughts you were thinking. And once that happens, you actually move into your body. You move into the space where I'm feeling my fingertips, for the first time, I'm feeling what it means to be in this body. Or as Ram Dass likes to call it a meat suit, right? We are just Yes, I love Ram Dass meat suits and or as the Dalai Lama says, that I love is, he says, you know, the it's just a change of clothes from the last life, right? So, you know, we're just a change of clothes and and so what does it mean to be in that, that suit for now? And that's what I mean by by sitting in the body. And once you sit in the body, your body, and this is another thing I tell, I tell people, is that there's nothing you haven't been through that your body hasn't also been through. And so your body is actually your biggest advocate for what is really going on. So it started

Nicoa Coach: 20:30

talking. Talking to you in what ways? So was it an uncomfortableness? Was it an anxiety? So I because you're speaking my language? RG, I love this, because I teach people about this observer of self and creating space between you and whatever the stimulus is. And it's in this space between you and the stimulus that is like a no man's land. And it's in that, that space that I get to choose, right? That is where the agency comes in. I have the power to create a reality, or I can make it mean whatever I want to make it mean, you know, or choose to experience it or not so, you know. And I often am reflecting in some of my social media work around I'm feeling an anxiety. I remember once hugging my husband, the father of my three children, and I had all this anxiety coming up my back and up into my neck. And as I was hugging him, I said to him, You know what, one day that will be gone, one day that will be gone, because I knew that we could release, that I knew whatever it was I was experiencing, I could heal that. And I don't know how I knew that, but I was like, I'm gonna get rid of this feeling, this this tense, this, you know, anxiety on my neck. At what point do you have any moments of memory that you could reflect on like that, where you were like, Yeah, this religion thing. I'm not quite sure it's me or I don't know you tell me,

Unknown: 21:51

yeah, you know, I think the answer is, like, threefold. One. I want to address the reality that, like, what comes up for me is not going to come up for listeners, right? And so Exactly. And so it's really important that, like, if I'm a listener, if I, if I gage that, oh, what RG is saying is this, and then I'm not feeling it, am I doing it wrong? So I really want to address that like it's going to show up in your body differently than it's going to show for anybody else in their own body. So part of this process is an intuitive process of listening to yourself more than listening to me. And I always tell my clients, if whatever I says, say, don't feel right, then kick me out. Kick it out. Like I don't You don't need me. You just listen to your body first, and your body will always lead you. Your body is your greatest teacher. So I want to say that first, the second thing, where it comes up for me was, well, so I'm a huge believer in chakras and energy and in those wheels within our body. And so the lower three chakras. And I don't mean lower in like value, but just lower the body. The first chakra is like the Muladhara chakra, which is the root chakra, which is where people feel safe, people feel secure and validated and heard well, clearly and not feeling any of those things as an abandoned baby growing up in a white world as an adopted brown kid, like figuring navigating all that stuff out, that root chakra never felt safe. And so where I felt it in my body was in my root which is in my lower back. And I feel a lot of like, like there's some physical stuff that still needs to kind of be worked out. And so that's a that's a validating, empowering and also a big patience game, because when it when it gets to the point where you feel it in the body, that means it's become like generational or it's become much larger than just a small issue. And so you have to be patient with yourself. And so once you realize that, Oh, my body holds trauma, you, it starts to click. And you're like, Well, where else could it be, except in my body? Like, if I'm feeling pain, obviously it's going to be held in the body. Like, where else could it go? And so then a part of the meditation process that's so powerful is once you sit in that stillness, once you sit in that surrender, your body actually starts to say, here is where it is. And then once you pinpoint, oh, it's like in my lower back for me, but for other people, might be in the shoulders or the neck for you. I mean, wherever it is. You can then go there. You can, not only you can send breath there, you can send energy there, and then you can send your very self there to sit with that. Because what's going on is that. And again, I discovered this in the worst place possible is there are different versions of you that exist that when you know 11 year old RG, or 13 year old RG, experienced this particular trauma. He got stuck at that time in that place, and then that holds this very specific place within his body, that is then in my 36 year old body. And so for me to release that and address that, I have to become friends and make conversation with that part of me that exists in that time, at that age, because 11 year old RG, is stuck in 19, whatever, 1990 98 right? And he has never, he's never moved past 1998 and so part of my book. Especially in the first chapter, is as I moved further and further into meditation, I got to a place where my third eye opened up and my chakras were aligned, and all of a sudden I'm shot to this place back in 1999 where I'm addressing and seeing my younger self for the first time, not in a memory. This is not a memory. This is happening, and he has no idea who I am, so I'm seeing him, and he's seeing me, and he has no idea. And in that moment, it clicked, oh, there's a disconnect between the present self and the past self, and that, that disconnect is trauma.

Nicoa Coach: 26:11

Ah, that was beautifully said. And what's profound about it is a couple of things that you said. First of all, yes, everybody's having a different experience. Secondly, you know, you you are role modeling your experience to help people, at least become the observer and question themselves. I mean, I think you know, always share your story for sure, because someone will resonate in some way with that. When you said, patience pretty critical. It's interesting, because as I go through a divorce right now, I my security and grounded root chakra in my lower back comes and goes now of tension and the patience with that is been profound. It's almost like that is my ultimate test of allowing myself to move through this and heal that part of me that is safe, it is secure, and reminding it that that's just a story from the past that is a ghost, but we have the cellular memory to your point. And then the last part about you having that meditative state and having that interaction with your younger self. I happen to be a rapid transformational therapist, so I do hypnotherapy to take people back to the root cause, the scene, the time, the place, the moment, and wish that subconscious, let's say abandonment, fear, showed up. And they typically go back to 1998 99 and they're having the conversation, and they're observing it like it's on a TV screen, and then we do an interruption. So tell me about the first time you started meditating. You know, for those people who are listening, who are like, I can't sit still five seconds. Are you kidding me? How am I going to have a profound, in depth meditative state to be able to have a conversation with my younger self, you know, talk about your first experience, and then advice for someone who wants to experience meditation like that? Yeah.

Unknown: 28:07

Well, um, thank you. You know. So I've always been a spiritual person, but the issue, one of my large issues with me, was I intellectualized everything, and mistaken that intellectualization for embodiment, which I think a lot of people are at and I think that's a lot of that's a reflection of a lot of spiritual leaders today in our world, is they have intellectualized Spirituality and haven't embodied it, and that's why there's no transformation or change. That's why we're dealing with the same shit we've been dealing with for 1000s of years, right? You know, there's, I forget who, but someone wants to I either read it, or someone once told me that, you know, all of the world's problems started because white men couldn't sit quietly in a room together, and I just that that sort of like visualization, like is a pretty good representation of what we're all dealing with right now, which is, if our leaders could just sit still for a second, who knows where our world would be, right? And so, meditation starts with a willingness to surrender to what is. Because if you aren't willing to surrender to what is, you're not going to sit still. You're going to push and push and push. Well, I want this. I want this. I want this. And full disclosure, I did that this fucking morning. Okay, so I am not a pastor, I'm a human being, and I deal with the same shit that every other human being deals with. I'm just a little more honest about it, right? Same because you have nothing to I have nothing to prove. I as a formerly incarcerated person who's a felon and a brown person who can't get a job, sometimes I have nothing to prove, you know, it's like I'm here so, so as far as me doing it, I did it in the worst possible. I did it incarcerated, surrounded by white supremacists and Neo Nazis. And that grace, right? I call it a grace now, is because I couldn't go anywhere,

Nicoa Coach: 30:09

right? You were forced. Your hand was forced.

Unknown: 30:12

Yep, I wasn't. It wasn't even safe for me. So it was like, I'm going to stick on my bunk a lot of times. And if you can't go outward, you go inward, or you die, right? So and so it was like, I'm going to surrender to what is which takes time. It takes time to be like, you know? So my book doesn't go my book isn't a chronological book, you know, the ocean inside me is very much. It's a spiritual journey. So it's not like, here's my life story. So sometimes when people read my book, they're like, oh my gosh, how'd you do it? It was like, well, it makes it look like I did it quickly. I didn't, you know, I had I did it. You know, I I was meditating six to eight hours a day sometimes, wow, going into my body and experiencing nothing sometimes. And in that surrender happens, and it's not a thing you can control. That's why it's called surrender. And the universe. I call The Universe. Some people can call it God. Some people call it love. I don't care what you call it. It finds you when you're ready to open up to it right. So it's, it's less of a, it's less of a, I've got to get it right, and it's more of a, how could you get it wrong? And and that energy that comes in you start to realize, I'm just the divine. That's it. I'm, you know, it's like the Divine is playing hide and seek with itself, and I'm just a very tighter, right? And so, so there's a reality of, like, once you realized, Oh, I'm the divine that decided to wake up in this meat suit, and my whole journey is to figure out, oh yeah, I'm just the divine, then it's, oh, where else can you go? And what are you hiding from? And when that space opens up, there's less of that energy of, well, I'm doing it all wrong. And again, more of an energy of, no, I'm exact. I've always done it right,

Nicoa Coach: 32:08

you and we all are always doing it right. We cannot get this thing called life wrong. There is no right or wrong. It's simply an experience. You know, I say that all the time, and I think that, you know, on one hand, this is going to sound odd. You had the privilege of being in a confined space where you didn't really, I mean, you said you could choose a six to eight hour meditation session. I would, I would love that. Oh my god. I could sit all day long. Having said that, the challenge of trying to get it right is usually what I've run up against or what I'm trying to avoid, as well as my clients. And so you're, you're spot on, and like you said, even this morning, you not being able to sit, to be able to sit and accepting what is means, accepting even the resistance. So radical acceptance, right? Is part of that work. And so when you really, how would you describe it? So I try to describe it sometimes, when you find the ocean within right? So you said you would tell describe to people how you would do it. You would actually put on headphones and listen to your handheld radio. So maybe just give us a little, a little taste of that experience with you. What would that like? Yeah, and I

Unknown: 33:25

don't know if there's a video, but like, here's my book, and the cover is me,

Nicoa Coach: 33:29

right? So that's you with the headphones on right? The ocean inside me. So

Unknown: 33:33

I put, I put some headphones on. I bought some really cheap, shitty plastic headphones, and I described them in my book as, like a prize you'd find in a cereal box in the 1990s Right? Like this. So, like, Ooh, cool. It's you pay, you pay 99 cents for shipping and handling. And that's it, kind of a precise, yeah, see through, and you see all the little green parts and and so, you know, I put it on these headphones, and at first it was just to escape the cacophony and noise of angry, racist men who can't sit still, right? You

Nicoa Coach: 34:05

know, I'm gonna read something from the book real quick, because I just glanced down your I quote the book here, my radio and meditation saved me from the murder of noise above me. I love this. I love the written word. I mean, that was really profoundly said. So yes, continue on. You're escaping from that, right?

Unknown: 34:24

At first, it's an escape, right? It's a it, acknowledging I just need to get out of here, and I can't get out of here, right? You feel like a trapped animal in a corner. And so you know, you're climbing up all the other walls trying to get around the people who've trapped you in a corner. So at first, the prison radio was an escape. And so you know, all you have is a rate and FM radio, right? And so you're not listening to Spotify, or you're not listening to podcasts. You're you're listening to whatever is on the radio, which is usually very little. In prison, there's not a lot of good signal, and so there's a lot of static. And so I just ended up just listening to the static and just acknowledging, okay, I'm just gonna listen to this white noise and listen to the static and it again, like any surrender. It doesn't have to be noise. It can be wherever you're at once you decide to surrender the universe comes in that form and takes you with it. It's it's a, it's a, it's a wrapping, a blanket, sort of a. I'm blanking around you and saying, all right, and so the the white noise and my body and what I needed, it all created this realm within me to help me address wounds that go way beyond me, because, because, as you know and as your listeners know, you can't address the wounds until you feel safe enough to address the wounds. Well, prison is all danger. It's not safe. There's nothing safe about being in prison. And so my body had to create, had to create a safe enough realm for me to address these wounds in an unsafe environment, in the most unsafe environment. And so it was a level of surrender. And then the white noise opened up this sort of world where I could go into through the element of water. And I think, in hindsight, the element of water not just because I grew up in Oregon and loved the ocean and loved the beach and loved the river. I mean, all those things play a role. But the practicality of it was that white noise over time just sounded a lot like rain and sounded a lot like the ocean. Yeah, I kind of let my body and let my spirit take over and just went with it.

Nicoa Coach: 36:46

And so I think it's profound. Don't you love that your last name is sure

Unknown: 36:52

it works. I think that's awesome.

Nicoa Coach: 36:54

So some more of the book. So because what I mean, if people could pick this up, I always say, if it's true here, it's true wherever you apply it, right? So if they could pick up this practice, you're talking about prison, and you sent me a chapter. You know, I need the whole book now. So prison teaches men to not care. You know, it feels like a stadium full of fans who've just lost a home game. I mean, talk about figuring out how to avoid the catabolic energy that it that is just the the fog of that, that location you were in. I mean, everything around you is victimhood, negativity, anger, you know, like you said, there's there's none. There's no windows, there's not enough space there. There's no trees, there's no grass. Everything is internal, you know. I mean, of course, you can go outside every once in a while, but nothing about those environments is anabolic. It doesn't shine light. So if you can't go outward, you have to go inward. People have chaos that it's all relative, but they all have a sense of chaos that they've created around them. Like you said, it's almost like it's all over them, until they can create that space and sit and listen within, you know, how do, how do they know they're ready? You say, it'll happen when they're How will they know when they're ready?

Unknown: 38:23

I mean, I think that if, and I really, really appreciate the the gentleness you approach prison with, I think that's really kind. And we need more people who are like, that's really shitty, I know. And just to like, sort of, I love, I love shifting perspectives, even my own. And so just to like shift, the perspective is like, is what you just described, any different from what our country is going through right now? Right,

Nicoa Coach: 38:59

right? It's the chaos is everywhere, the catabolic Energy is everywhere. It's the

Unknown: 39:05

same fucking thing. It is people who are experiencing what I experienced in that moment. It's almost like the universe was saying, I'm going to show you a glimpse of your country in about four or 5678, years, your experience on a condensed version. But I think about everything going on, especially with Sonia Massey, that's happening like all the stuff that's happening politically, the divisiveness, the unrest, the anxiety, the worry, the fear, we are feeling it globally, right? And and so what I say to people is like, what you're feeling now? I felt times 1000 in incarcerated because I couldn't I couldn't go anywhere, I couldn't turn on Netflix and pretend like it didn't exist, or watch a documentary and feel like I've done my part. You know, like to there's a level of of owning it and surrendering it to it, and that's why the mystics and the best of the best call it wounded healers, right? You accept the wound. The wound never goes away, but it no longer becomes a trauma because you've accepted it. And so you transform the wounds so you can heal the wounds of others. And so I do think that we are in a place where people are like running around like chickens with their heads cut off. And. And I'm here to say, I can help you. I can help guide you. And so you say, how did they know when they're ready? They're ready, they're

Nicoa Coach: 40:39

ready. And what they think they're supposed to be doing is doing so. So everybody's like, yes, Nicola, but it is chaos and it is catabolic. So I better go fix it. I have to go fix it. The best way you fix it is to quote, unquote, fix what you are currently perceiving or currently avoiding inside of you. Yeah? So, you know, I know guys, everybody's rolling their eyes. Oh, my God, she's gonna say, Be the change. Yeah, I am gonna tell you, because if I can create peace within me, then the ripple effect of my anabolic energy out to the world affects the next five people, which affects the next five people, which affects the next 50,000 people. And then we are sitting in spaces of peace, and we're sitting in spaces of compassion and connectedness, and even just connecting in your small corner of the world. If you're so led to go march or go, you know, I mean, please vote, please. But if you are so led, listen to that. Is that? Is that led out of optimism and faith, or is that being led out of fear and anger? And there's value in all but notice where you're coming from and sitting in stillness and quiet. It can help you recognize what path you're being called to act within the

Unknown: 42:06

transformational the transformation process I always say, means moving from a doing to a being, right? And so you have to be the Beingness. And again, as I said before, once you sort of go through that process of beingness, it will automatically lead to the doing. So we kind of have to, like, switch the roles of, oh, once I do, things will change. No, no. Like, once you be and go through that transformational process, then everything as a result changes, and that's how we're going to change the system, is we have to become the energy that we're wanting to see, as opposed to trying to force that energy onto other people by and so and So that's the much larger issue, is that there's no transformation happening among among the people that are making all the decisions. And so it really is counterintuitive, because the amount of shit we're going through, the universe is like, embrace and allow the shit, and that's how you're gonna remove the shit and it, that's right, except

Nicoa Coach: 43:12

what is without resistance. Yes, I'm sorry I spoke no,

Unknown: 43:16

no, and so, I mean, I think that people are ready. And again, a lot of these tools that people like you or me or whoever else are here for, is again, like, don't, don't mistaken the finger pointing to the moon, for the moon itself, meaning a lot of people are so attached to a tool, they're like, Well, I can't get yoga Right? Or, well, I've now tried somatic therapy, or I've tried Tre, or I've tried ifs, or I've tried, like, therapy, or I've tried, you know, being a going to yoga, the list goes on and on and on to infinity and again. Don't think that that tool is the thing itself. You can find what you're looking for through like brushing your teeth, if that's what like helps you. So I'm here to show you the tools and and I'm here to show you that those tools are only just a way to get you to where you want to go. They aren't the end result. And so again, there's everyone in their mama is a spiritual guru now, right? So prior to like, I try to take the good with the bad and allow and sort of say, like, again, if it's not for you, let it go. Don't get attached to the thing itself.

Nicoa Coach: 44:37

That's right. I mean, all these morning routines and, you know, all these activities. Honestly, I'm 55 I'm tired. I don't I don't really have it in me anymore to be so ritualistic and so intense. You know, my soon to be ex husband took the peloton best thing that ever happened. I was like, I feel so much more relaxed now without the peloton in the house, like it was just kind of like over there hovering, and now I'm following my body, so my body, every once in a while, like in the mornings, I'm like, Oh, I'm doing a downward facing dog in the bed, just in my lower back releases, and before I even get out of the bed, or I'm doing push ups on the counter edge. And then today I took a walk that I was going to the mailbox, and then I just kept going, and I was like, Oh, I don't have a hat on. It's hot. Oh, well, I didn't wear my tennis shoe. I got flip flop. Oh, I'm still walking. Oh, okay, I turned my little watch on. Gets credit. But that, to me, is a way of being. That's the being, and it's no longer than nicoa doing that caused me to strive so much. Now I've like, Okay, what if I just went with where I'm being called? So if anybody's listening, that's being called to sit and try meditation. Start with your eyes open. Just sit and look around like just notice the details. I don't know. What other first steps might we advise them on? I know you have to wrap up here in a little bit. Okay, let's get some tips.

Unknown: 46:08

Yeah, I you know, um, you can't, you know, you can't build a, you know, you can't build a statue of David without first learning what a chisel is, right? So there's a level of, like, being compassionate towards yourself and gentle towards yourself and saying, look like, you know, just start with one grain of sand before you try to dig up the whole beach, right? And so, yeah, I think there's a level of just, yeah, try a minute and and again, if you go into a mindset of, Am I doing it right, you've already missed the entire point. So the allowing is just sitting and observing and noticing. That's a good first step. And once you've done two seconds, do three seconds, you know, and then do five and then, and then give yourself a break and come back to it in 10 days. If you need to, like, be gentle with yourself and know that this is a process. And don't be afraid to ask for help from yourself, right or from others, because we all could use a little encouragement. And so what I often tell clients is that, like, I'm here to just create the space. I'm not the healer. I'm just creating space for you to do the healing, but my goal as a healer is to make sure you're safe enough and there's enough space for you to start to reflect in new ways. And I'm just a mirror for you and a mirror for other people, and that's all that I can be, and also like that's good enough. And so find someone who feels who you feel safe enough with, who can you can connect with that is going to be gentle with you and and sort of have enough compassion to show you how to be gentle enough with yourself, because you will always be your greatest teacher. But sometimes it helps to reach out to someone who can kind of gently nudge you in the right direction.

Nicoa Coach: 48:11

I think that's beautiful. We are just creating that safe space. And you know, willingness really is the first step. I think just being curious listening, if you're still listening to this interview, then you must be a little bit willing, because ultimately, I will, I can say for myself and RG, I can tell from your demeanor and your beautiful life on social media that you know it works the cost from before the fear, uncertainty and doubt, or as I call it, the FUD factor of life that I felt so like so constantly was trying to control. It cost me, cost me physically, you know, with dis ease, right? I had malignant melanoma. I had what I thought was a near miss heart attack, which was a panic attack, you know, I all sorts of, all sorts of messages from the body. And the cost of my life was chaos. It was stress, even though I was like, Oh, but I have the whole checklist. I have everything I said I ever wanted. So what the hell is wrong with me? How could I be upset, anxious, uptight, feeling out of control. I had to integrate with my body and listen to what my body was telling me. And so, you know, the other side of meditation being one tool, the other side of it is so beautiful and so relaxing, and our ability to observe ourselves allows me to really parse out the bodily message. Or, you know, Oh, right. Oh, what did I make that mean? I mean it gives you a whole new toolkit of awareness that helps you get into those spaces more frequently. Because it's not that you go to the panic or the overwhelm or the chaos or the anxiety or that I can't sit still, it's how long do you stay there? And can you move compassionately out of it to that way of being that you crave. I mean, the cost to you before could have been death. Could have been getting beat up, right? I mean, tell us a little bit more about your cost before and the true benefit now for you,

Unknown: 50:26

yeah, you know the cost is always you're surrendering. To the fact that you feel helpless, right? I mean, that's, I think, anxiety and fear and so. So things always boil down to anxiety, fear, doubt, shame, guilt, right? Like those sort of energies, and then when you break those down, when you're when you're willing to sit long enough even with those things, and those sitting with those things, it is a mountain in itself, right? Oh, this thing is just fear. But if you even are willing to sit even beneath that and break those down, my summation, and my opinion is that those always lead to the real thing underneath all this is, we don't want to die. That's, that's, we're afraid. We're fucking afraid of death, right? Because if, if we weren't so afraid of death, we would just be on this journey allowing everything. We're just afraid of dying, and we're afraid of dying with particular circumstances not happening or or without

Nicoa Coach: 51:30

living. I mean, isn't that your point? I'm afraid of dying because I want to live right.

Unknown: 51:35

And we're afraid of the unknown. We're afraid of death. And so, you know what happens in meditation for me, that I that I can help people kind of get to within their own body, is, what if, just, just, what if, hear me out on this one. What if, like, death didn't exist. What if there was a form before this form, and there's a form after this form, and that energy creates a perspective of safety? Because if you start to, like, if you go underneath the curtain, behind the curtain, and you see that you couldn't ever possibly go anywhere. You're just changing forms. Then you realize, oh, this universe that is so expansive beyond my own understanding of it has always been there, and it's always been me. Then it's less of like, Oh, I've got to get this thing right, or I've got to like, yeah. You know it's like, to me, it's like, if not in this time, then like, maybe the next lifetime, right? Like, yeah. And so if we can get past this perspective of, what does it mean? The whole thing life by design, is what if. And this is a big what if and a scary what if. But what if? What if there are past lives and future lives, and even more than that, what if all of your former incarnations. What if all the Nicolas before nicoa got together, before you were birthed in this life and said, What do we want her to experience this time?

Nicoa Coach: 53:03

They gave me the whole damn checklist. RG,

Unknown: 53:08

so there's, there's a level of, okay, not only do I have agency as a co creator in real time, but I actually chose all these things for myself. Yeah, and that you're

Nicoa Coach: 53:18

talking about beliefs. Yeah, and if, and I invite everybody to play with the belief You're right. What if? What if most people don't like what if, because they like it in a box, they like it to be clear, they want to know the right and wrong. They want to get it right, but you're absolutely talking about opening the blinders of viewing the world, because who we don't know, nobody really knows the

Unknown: 53:45

story is much larger than than you think. I mean, to give an example, is like in reality, you haven't even left the Shire yet. That's, that's, oh yeah, you know, like people haven't even left the Shire. So that's a Lord of the Rings reference for Yeah, no, but like, or like, you know, for you younger folks with Harry Potter, like you're still in the cupboard living at the Dursleys, right? So there's a much larger fucking story happening, and surrender to it, and then you'll be like, Oh, okay, like, that's when things begin to open up. That's

Nicoa Coach: 54:19

right, it put it, puts it all in perspective, yeah? And it's a perspective, by the way, you get to decide on, yeah, yeah. So if you're having fun in the perspective you've created, and that's serving you beautifully, then keep going. But if you're suffering, then it's time to change the perspective, change the box, change the definitions and

Unknown: 54:40

be patient. Be patient with yourself and exactly change change your perspective.

Nicoa Coach: 54:46

I'm gonna have to have you text me that please remember to be patient. Text frequently, because patience has not been part of the Capricorn a personality of Nicola so I'm learning, and it sounds to me like you're continuing to learn as well. Yeah, last question before we wrap up, and I'm just so grateful to have you here, and we didn't even get to talk about so many things. But gosh, maybe I can have you on again another time, maybe after your next book. But you and I, I, you know, we have a lot in common here. How what is the and this a question I ask all my clients at the end of their their sessions. What is the one thing you want to celebrate the most about yourself before we wrap up this conversation? Conversation today.

Unknown: 55:32

Well, the most like, I am really resilient, and I, you know, and, and a part of this journey is self love, right? It's worthiness. Like, oh shit, I want to do all these things, and now I'm and now I feel worthy enough to do all these things. And it's going into the wound that you're like, oh shit. So like, for example, in sort of manifesting and putting it out there, but also knowing is like, look, I'm going to create this nonprofit like that I did, but it's going to be a retreat center where people can come and do the healing work and do the trauma addressing work in a safe environment where people are like, oh, and then afterwards, there's play, right? So that's a big part of my method. And my teaching is like, it's not just trauma, and then you're not just Sisyphus pushing this, this rock up this hill. When we learn to address and release trauma and really go into the wound, which is tough work, then what next? Well, then you realize, oh, the universe just wants me to play as me, and so my whole goal, through Northwest wisdom is to create that place where people can come and do the hard work and play. And I'm really, really proud of myself that that's the vision, because it's a vision that comes from truth, and I believe that it'll happen. I'm very proud of my book and writing it, and it's taken me a long time to, like, own it and be like, This is my story, and it's a good one, and it deserves to be read, and it deserves to be heard. And so, you know, I I'm trusting that it's going to reach the people that it needs to reach. So these are just a few things that I'm like, Hey, I'm really proud of myself. I'm

Nicoa Coach: 57:13

really proud of you too, and I'm really proud of me too, and that is the journey to get to that state of self, love and deservedness and and it all we are. We're supposed to be having a good time. And I'm so grateful for you to share your wisdom and your experience with us today. You know, I was just posting about playing more. I like to juggle in between my clients and NPR just actually put an article out that talks about we're not playing enough. And I'll try to remember and put that link in our show notes today, and all the links to reach you, any last minute thing you want to share that I haven't referenced the book, The Retreat Center. Yeah, the Northwest northwestwisdom.org What else?

Unknown: 57:57

I mean? Just yeah, if you could, like any of your listeners, could buy my book and support me that way. It's called the ocean inside me, and you can get it at on Amazon by just typing, the ocean inside me, by Rg shore, or our website, www.northwestwisdom.org you you can find the book there. I also have a masterclass on healing trauma. So there's all kinds of ways that you can support me, and I'm very grateful for any support that can come my way.

Nicoa Coach: 58:25

Well, it is my honor to support you and champion you, and if there's anything else you think I can do to help out. Please let me know. I will make sure all of that information is in the show notes. Everybody, thank you for listening. Thank you. RG, you're amazing. I'm so proud of you, and thanks for reminding me that I need to be proud of me too. So great conversation. I will talk to you again in the future, I'm sure sounds good.

Unknown: 58:53

Thanks for joining us. For a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with nicoa and check out our website, coffeewithnicoa.com and that's nicoa, n, i, CoA, we look forward to talking with you soon and enjoy your coffee between now and then you.