S2 EP28: TASHA and BRANDON SKILLIN, Rules And Rebellion

Nicoa has the privilege of talking with Tasha + Brandon Skillin of Rules & Rebellion who always tell it like it is! Nicoa digs deep with them as they share their burnout, trauma based LIFE BY DESIGN and how they turned burnout into breakthrough for themselves and their clients in their company RULES + REBELLION!  Brandon overcame an 18-year alcohol addiction, Tasha has recovered 80% from being bed bound with ME/CFS, and they unschool their two teenagers while rebuilding the life of their dreams in Portland, OR.

CONNECT WITH TASHA + BRANDON HERE: https://www.rulesandrebellion.com/

Buy your copy of YOUR LIFE BY DESIGN: A Coffee With Nicoa Self-Care Coaching Journal
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Transcript

BRANDON SKILLIN: 0:00

Nicoa,

Nicoa Coach: 0:01

grab your coffee and join me, nicoa, for a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths, and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Because guys, I have to start talking right away. And if we don't push record, we miss all the really good, juicy stuff, like the fact that you had a master class today. We're talking about technology. Uh, Welcome to Coffee with nicoa, Brandon and Tasha,

BRANDON SKILLIN: 0:48

thank you. Hi. We're

TASHA SKILLIN: 0:50

excited to be here.

Nicoa Coach: 0:51

I'm so excited you're here. You even have your your mug. I have, like, water. Okay, well, I have, that's three

TASHA SKILLIN: 0:57

vessels over here of drinks, because that is my go to I never not have touches hydrated to the max.

Nicoa Coach: 1:07

Well, welcome to the show. I'm gonna do the quick intro of you guys, which I'm getting ready to pick on. Y'all, I love, I always ask for a bio, right? So read your bio. I'm gonna read it. It's good, it's got, it's got some good, great. You know, it's clear, it's

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:25

excellent, it's robust.

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:29

I only use the two paragraph one, so really,

Nicoa Coach: 1:32

it's good, it's great. First,

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:34

hate writing bios.

Nicoa Coach: 1:35

I just love y'all so much. I cannot believe you said, Yes, I think we both are connected through LinkedIn, or, excuse me, Instagram with Rick direct, yeah, right, yeah. And I just interviewed him, so then somehow I'm seeing all y'all and yes, I should interview you guys. I mean, we are literally talking about the same shit all day long, right? Yeah, yeah. So everybody listening Tasha and Brandon now? Last Name Skillen. Yeah, that's so cool. I love that name. Okay? Founders of rules and rebellion. Oh, and we're gonna dig deep on rebellion, dedicated to helping entrepreneurs, coaches, creatives and high achievers navigate their complex lives and achieve their goals without and here's the kicker, everybody succumbing to burnout or perfectionism. And I think we got some recovering burnout perfectionists here on the call today. Trauma informed, however rather profoundly each of you have some very unique stories to share about your own personal traumas and experiences you help your clients dig pretty deep into those complexities, whether it's ADHD, CPTSD, trauma or menopause or the menstrual cycle, before, after, during. Yeah, I

BRANDON SKILLIN: 2:53

love that. I'll be

Nicoa Coach: 2:55

in the post menopausal age group, and it does affect your whole way of being, doesn't it? Oh, my God, all right. You go on to describe all of this embodiment and all of the ways in which you help your clients, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I said, yeah, let me just read the one sentence off the Instagram account, which says, we help overachievers Get the fuck out of burnout so they can be the main character in their lives.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 3:19

That is it? That is really the heart of the matter. Life

Nicoa Coach: 3:23

by design, baby and get out of your own way. Tell me more. Welcome us into your world.

TASHA SKILLIN: 3:32

It really It boils down to us realizing in our mid 30s and mid to late 30s that we had been designing our life and creating a life not on purpose. It was reactionary, and it was based on following the rules from our parents, from society, from the mentors and industries that we were in. And I ended up bed bound, and it really forced us to re examine everything. And as we were doing that, we started realizing there are just so many rules, and Brandon's a natural Rebel, and I am too, but he was outwardly more rebellious in a lot of ways, and I was more covert, like I would, I would play the part I need to play, and then I would still do what I wanted to do, like behind the scenes and undercover. But the reality is that all of that was just a version of masking. We were just trying so hard to manage both things like do what we needed to do, what we thought was right, what we felt was right, but also manage the stress of of living in a world that did not want us to live that way. And we got real, real honest about some shit that was not working in our relationship, in our parenting, in the way we were navigating relationships outside of our own work, business life, helping the whole thing, everything holistic.

Nicoa Coach: 4:47

Well, even before you start Brandon, I want to know how you guys met. So let's tell this story from like, the beauty of the two of you, because everybody and of course, you know, I'm going to put clips out there so everybody can see your amazingness, because you. Guys got the pink hair, and you got the bandana. And I love following you guys on Instagram, your characters, your authentic you're not wearing those masks anymore. And that's really what I hope people will take away from today's conversation, is that you do not have to wear the mask to be successful and to be satisfied and fulfilled. So how did you two amazing souls meet?

TASHA SKILLIN: 5:22

So we have one of those cheesy stories that makes people roll their eyes, and we love telling it because we we found our way back to each other after dating for a year in high school, we were honestly high school sweethearts. I am two years senior than Brandon, so I went off to college. He stayed in high school, finished, abandoned me and she left, and so I went out to college. And you know, life happens, and we broke up, and then about eight years later, we re found each other. I was four months pregnant, five months pregnant with my with our son, but I was married previously, and had run into his dad at the gym and said, How's Brandon doing? Because it'd been so long we both had had several lives since then, and he said, he's great. So we still had, this is going to age us. We still had a lot AOL, instant messengers. We had game accounts that we used to talk to each other in high school with, and I saw him online super late one night, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I haven't seen him forever. How are you doing? I heard you're in Hawaii. And he said, I'm in Hawaii. How the hell do you think I'm doing? And we just started chatting, just kind of catching up on each other's lives. And you through a series of events, my marriage was ending anyway, and then within the year Brandon had moved back to Hawaii, back from Hawaii to Maryland, where we grew up, and we have not friends

Nicoa Coach: 6:46

like, yeah, that's it. That was the story.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 6:50

No, I mean, I the it. Our relationship is one of those things where, like, I was living in Hawaii and she was living 6000 miles away on the other side of the planet, and it wasn't a thought, it was just like, that's where she is, and that's where I'm just gonna go. Like, it just we and the connection that we have is, yeah, so much fun. And I think that's one of the things that is so addictive about our relationship, for the both of us is that we literally, we irritate the shit out of our kids, like our kids are so tired of us being adorable and this much in love with each other and and it's been okay 17 years now, since we got back together the second time. Oh,

Nicoa Coach: 7:37

I think that's beautiful. You guys do have though you emit fun from your posts. And I'm curious, when you came together 17 years ago, were you both in the midst of your intense experiences, or did those things happen to you after you were together? That's a great question.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 7:56

I feel like it's safe to say that we've been in the midst of intense experiences for a long mother fucking time. What so what's funny about where we are now is we have our clients are so lovely and and compliment our relationship and our our collaborative work effort together that we get complimented so much we 100% were against working together for a really long time, like 10 years, we're still surprised that we keep showing up going, No, we really, definitely want to keep doing this, because this is so good, because we were so polar opposite in though our trauma is so polar opposite of each other that our reaction to it is we're two sides of the same coin. And so when Tasha and I got together, she was deeply in her maladaptive coping mechanisms, navigating her own trauma, while I was deeply in my own maladaptive coping mechanisms. And I genuinely believe that the only reason why the first three years of our marriage didn't kill us is just because we're meant to be together. And that was it. Like, there was just, it was like, white knuckling it to where we are now, because we knew in our heart and I our soul that we were meant to be together. I'm sure it was just really hard, like it was really hard for us, each individually, to be able to zoom out, to not be so deeply in survival mode that we could hear what the other one was saying, like we wanted to like we really wanted to be on the same page, and we were trying really hard. Unfortunately, though, because of the fact that we were so deep in our own stuff, it made all of the conversations and all of the things we were doing probably three or four times as long as they needed to be, and it was just because we were having such a hard time honestly seeing ourselves, to be able to be seen by the other and and through through so many weird things. And then, honestly, the catalyst for us really coming to an understanding of the work that we do now was when Tasha got sick 12 years ago,

TASHA SKILLIN: 10:10

when we got 10 years diagnosed, 10 years ago, 10 years ago is when I started getting sick six years ago, that I was diagnosed, right

BRANDON SKILLIN: 10:16

and and it was through, and it was because that moment it it didn't allow us to ignore anything anymore.

Nicoa Coach: 10:27

It forced your hand. Yeah, and you guys had the willingness, I mean, the fact that you you were already committed and leaning in and willing to grow together in spite of like you're right, those conversations take a hell of a lot longer when you're not healed, mainly because the other person feels seen and heard and understood so terribly that they just keep repeating it till the other person might be able to understand. Well, why don't we shift to that story of you actually being diagnosed, or at least starting to have the symptoms? I do want you to also take advantage of this description and this experience to explain to people what a spoonie is. I saw that in your Instagram profile, and I was like, I had to look it up, and I remembered after I read it what it was, but maybe you could weave that into the story of yours. Yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 11:20

so this the term spoonie is comes from an example. I can't remember her name, to be honest with you, who was explaining to a family member or a friend what it's like to have limited capacity in a day, and for someone who has been operating at 120% most of my life, to then be knocked down to at some at one point, I was at like, a 30% functioning rate. It is a huge shift in your entire perspective, and not only from the person who is navigating the chronic illness, but also the entire family of someone who is now having to shift everything that's happening. So you know, I was bed bound within. I started getting symptoms into early 2014 I 14, and we just kept going to doctors, and they kept saying, your lab work looks fine, like there's nothing wrong with you in terms of lab work. And doctors kept saying that it was in my head, and that it eventually got to the point where it's really strong gaslighting, which is come what we now know is very common in the medical industry, especially for women, especially for women in their 30s, 40s and 50s. And it boils down to there's just not enough research in what we now know are the complex life circumstances that create all of these variables that are so hard for science to nail down for studies. And it took us three years for me to finally get diagnosed, and it's only because I happen to come across a post on Facebook where someone was describing me CFS, which is myologic encephalomyelitis, chronic fatigue syndrome, which is an accumulation of a lot of symptoms, which is basically burnout times 10. And we had to take a train up to New York from Maryland, because there are, there were only three doctors in the country who were treating or acknowledging me at that point, which was our product, because the my capacity was so limited, and when we were in that doctor's office, she said, you're going to be lucky if you don't get worse. And this is, there's no cure for this. And you're what you're looking at right now, and you're like, your daily life is the best it's probably going to be.

Nicoa Coach: 13:24

And you're like, What the fuck What are we going to do now

TASHA SKILLIN: 13:28

it was, it was rough. Well, you

Nicoa Coach: 13:30

did something because look at your beautiful, healthy self sitting across from us right now. Oh my gosh.

TASHA SKILLIN: 14:09

Well, and it was, the thing about being chronically ill is that you can improve your symptoms in your daily life, but you have to believe that what the doctor says is just one perspective, and you have to have support in place like I couldn't be where I am now if Brandon wasn't busy taking care of literally every other aspect of her life while I was going down the rabbit holes of researching what my options were and doing, you know, making phone calls and sending emails in between having to, like, hide in the dark because my symptoms were so severe from my nervous system being so hijacked, and so it was just a lot of collaborative work that we've seen so many people not have the ability to do, like a lot of people don't have a supportive spouse in these situations. I was in Facebook groups where people didn't have that, or their spouses were leaving, leaving them when they're in these situations. You know, there's a lot of layers to that we don't know, but I just I couldn't have, I couldn't be here talking to you, and honestly, on my journey to hike eight miles to see 10 waterfalls this year, if Brandon wasn't doing the things that he had been doing during that time when I was in bed and we were navigating those things together, doing the work to heal our individual traumas while also healing the physical symptoms of the chronic illness well, and this

BRANDON SKILLIN: 15:23

is one of the reasons why we talk about the things we talk about today. Before this call, we had a master class where we were talking about. So one of the key things that gets missed when people are talking about burnout is actually taking note of all of the things that accumulate your life that added up to burnout. And yes, of course, Tasha was able to get well because of the fact that I was managing the actual logistical business of our house and raising our children for those two years. But the other reality is there's no way she would have been able to get better if she didn't basically teach herself how to become a doctor and look at her own body and understand what's going on. And what does not ever get talked about is that amount of work that needs to go into managing every single piece of your life. Tasha wouldn't be here where she is right now if she didn't have the space and the availability to to literally be in bed all day long, researching the human body and understanding how it works, and understanding that when blood work came back, she literally researched everything that came back to understand it, so that she could talk to medical professionals on their level, so that when they said dumb shit, like, go do more yoga, she could say, Fuck no. Look, listen to what I am saying.

Nicoa Coach: 16:46

And but you have the mindset as well and the wherewithal to go do that. And I for those people listening, you know, ask yourself, what else could you be doing? Or who could you ask for help from in order to and if you're like, I don't have anybody say, well, listen to these guys. Start following you guys online. I mean, let's follow, let's follow the people who are role modeling for us in advance of us. They may only be two feet ahead of you, but start following those people. Go do at least one research item a day. So I'm really proud of you. I mean, good for you. Not everybody has that.

TASHA SKILLIN: 17:21

Thank you. Well, and it's not, it's not easy. I mean, the other thing, the two things that we really focus on in the work with our clients, because it's a thing that we wish we had known 10 years ago is the significance of your nervous system in how you function. This, this fight or flight that so many people are in without realizing it being stuck on is hijacking so much of your ability to be able to do that to resource help, to be able to resource, you know, the to be able to use that time to produce a different result, and seek out mentors that are actually aligned, and to be able to to listen to something, to be able to take action, like you said, the one action a day. And the other part of it is it wasn't just one thing that got either one of us there, because Brandon was taking care of me for a couple years, and all of the other stuff as well. And so it wasn't just one thing. It was the accumulation of all these pieces. It was ignoring my cycle for all those years, and understanding that the variation of your energy and your capacity from week to week is huge.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 18:21

Yeah, I get talking, I get so fucking mad about the just blatant ignoring we have done as a society when it comes to the impact of a cycle of a person who has a uterus, like, there's like, I just don't even know where to start, like, I could have been a better partner at the fucking beginning. Like I could have, I could have been a more supportive, more effective partner at the beginning, which would have made her illness, if not non existent, but at least more manageable right away, and the actual act of being able to do the work that she needed to do to be able to investigate her own chronic illness was directly impacted by the emotional and energetic shifts from Phase to phase. Right she would have really great days ovulatory cycle where she was like, we've got this fucking thing. We're gonna beat it. And then she would flip over to her luteal phase, and it would be this overwhelming, enormous amount of, Oh, my God, I don't know that we're ever gonna get out of this. Understandably so, and if we understood the cycle better, we would have been able to more effectively support her through those things, to be able to utilize the actual strengths of the cycle, rather the phase of the cycle, rather than hoping we were just going to keep showing up every day with the expectation of I need to have the same amount of energy that I did today or yesterday as I do today. That's fucking banana.

Nicoa Coach: 19:53

Have you guys forgiven yourselves for not knowing that early on

BRANDON SKILLIN: 20:00

I can Yeah, I'm still mad about it.

TASHA SKILLIN: 20:02

He's still mad.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 20:04

No, not mad at myself. Yeah, I

TASHA SKILLIN: 20:06

had to do a lot of forgiving for myself, for sure, of because there's a lot of shame that comes with burnout. I agree, right? There's a lot of shame that comes with I should have I should have done things differently. I should have been differently, like the thing that comes that I am still going to be I will work on probably for the rest of my life. I hope it doesn't take that long, but the grieving of missing those moments with my kids when they were. Little that I will never get back, like I just won't get those that time back. And that's the part that, and then the the impact of not knowing your own trauma is playing out in your day to day life and your parenting will eat you alive.

Nicoa Coach: 20:46

But you know what, Tasha, I have a philosophy around all of that, because I really, I have this belief system that that, and I talked about this with Rick. You know that our kids chose us, and I know that you've shared publicly a little bit about your concern about your kids, like one of your children is doesn't even like to watch movies that might have someone that's you know, severely ill, or shows hospital scenes and things like that, because it's upsetting to them, but there is value in all for them to then have that trigger, to then observe themselves like wow. And that makes so much sense that I would be triggered by that scene in the movie, because of how much love I have showed my mother and how frightening that was when she was bedridden. So we're actually giving them tools, even though it sucked and we missed out and we couldn't walk them to kindergarten that morning, or whatever it was, you actually have role modeled for them so much overcoming adversity and the grace in which you now talk about that, and you know, just your self awareness. So we can go there or we can reframe it, right well.

TASHA SKILLIN: 21:55

And I think that we need to allow both to exist. I think we need to allow ourselves to have the grieving process, to accept to to allow ourselves to to be aware of what would have been. Because I don't. I genuinely don't believe that everything happens for a reason. I don't. I think there's a lot of opportunity for us to extract lessons from things that have happened and use that to our advantage. Going forward, trauma wisdom, I would have, if I could choose, I would have rather taught them these lessons differently. Trauma

Nicoa Coach: 22:25

I really like that

BRANDON SKILLIN: 22:26

phrase,

Nicoa Coach: 22:28

trauma wisdom. That's a nice phrase. Yeah. So let's talk Brandon about your story. You have a history of an addiction. Would you like to talk to us about your own? Yeah?

BRANDON SKILLIN: 22:40

So I was an alcoholic for 18 years. I started nice and early in high school, and that was without getting into it. It was, it was an environmental experience, but it was also a maladaptive coping mechanism that was born out of a lot of trauma and and to be honest with you, I think there's probably a lot of social acceptance wrapped up in the fact that I am a male presenting person. And so there's part of that. And I was raised by people where that was just an okay thing, sure, um, and it was, it was an interesting journey out of it, because it was for a lot of things. Tasha getting sick was absolutely horrible. And I don't ever want to, ever have to repeat anything like that, ever again, ever and at that time, it is what gave me permission to say yes to something that I had thought three years beforehand, which is, I think I'm an alcoholic. I'm really scared to say it out loud. I don't know what to do next, and I found myself three years later in a position where Tasha couldn't get out of bed. The kids were little, and I was the one that was capable of doing a lot more work to be able to manage a lot of the house, and I don't even remember it being a natural cause and effect thought process. It was very much something that I transitioned out of being an alcoholic to being a full time caregiver. And honestly, if it weren't for the need that I had, I don't know how much longer it would have taken. And one of the things that Tasha was just saying about burnout is how there's a lot of shame and guilt in burnout. One of the things that I feel really affected me deeply was my shame and guilt came from if I say I can't do something, or if I say something needs to change, responsibilities are going to get taken away from me. And so the idea of openly, out loud, saying, I'm afraid I'm an alcoholic was the fear was, I don't know what's going to get taken away from me. I'm going to be in trouble. Bad things are going to happen to me, which is why I didn't say anything about it. I understand that. And and the same goes for burnout, and it was an interesting experience, because I transitioned out of actively drinking to actively being a caregiver, and I was in therapy, and so I didn't go to a program to stop drinking. I just fundamentally large group settings, just. Aren't my thing. And so I was going, I was in therapy at the time, and it took me a while to actually heal and accept the reality of the fact that I was an alcoholic and what 18 years of drinking really, really meant. As I transitioned out of that and I just got into doing the work of living and keeping the family alive, I was quickly burning myself out because I really, truly didn't have a choice. And what I found to be also interesting about burnout was a similar experience I had when I was coming to terms with being an alcoholic. Was I was really afraid to say it out loud, because if I say it out loud, then it's going to mean that I can't keep going. And if I can't keep going, then who am I, and what do I? What am I supposed to do, and what's going to get taken away from me? Am I going to be treated like a child? Like all of that stuff really came up. And it was a really interesting thing to see how an illness like addiction and an affliction like burnout that came from, quite frankly, also the addiction had so many similarities in the healing journey of both of them. Yeah, and the thing, honestly, that really changed everything for me was when Tasha started learning about nervous system regulation to heal herself. We were talking about it a lot, and because we were talking about it, a lot, I learned as much as I could gather from a woman who was basically an encyclopedia. And I was able to start acknowledging, even though I don't want to drink anymore, the feeling I have in my body right now feels like it used to when I would say I need a drink or I need to go get a drink, and it didn't make me afraid anymore, and it didn't make me feel like I was out of control. I was just able to acknowledge, oh, I'm just anxious and dysregulated. I know what to do, ah. And so it was an interesting thing linking the similarities of alcoholism and being burned out to recognize it really does come back to what's going on in your body and the fact that you don't feel safe, and you don't feel safe for a lot of reasons, and you don't feel safe to say these things are going on for other reasons too well. And, yeah, go ahead.

Nicoa Coach: 27:50

I just I, first of all, I commend you, because a lot of people can't make that connection. And for you to be in the midst of learning about, you know, burnout and autonomic nervous system regulation, I mean, that's a pretty you guys are the ideal partnership in this, in this journey together. So you were able to both help each other by default. But you, you shared something publicly the other day that I wanted to ask you about, which I think a lot. You talked about being afraid if you said it out loud, what would be taken away from you. Well, it sounded to me, based on what you shared, that you lost some family support and that got taken away from you. And that was, can you talk about that when boundary setting, I have a child who wanted to not eat certain items at a family event, and this is the first thing that popped up for me, and everyone gave her a hard time at the table. And so share with us your experience, so other people can learn from it.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 28:48

I so I'll get into it a little bit. So the experience I had was, um, have you ever heard the the analogy, or the metaphor of like crabs crawling out of a bucket and pulling Yeah, and they pull it down. It was that. It was my alcoholic journey was born based on other people's alcoholic journey. And I was an isolated only child that spent a lot of time around people who either were heavily addicted to or heavily leaned on external substances for whatever reasons they did. And when you choose to walk away from something like that, it essentially puts a mirror up to the other people that are in your life that are doing the things that they taught you how to do when you choose to no longer do those things anymore, it's massively triggering to everybody and in my experience, the triggered people lash out because of the fact that I in my personal in my personal opinion, they too are worried about things being taken away from them. They too are worried about being judged. They too are worried well, if you're doing this, what does this say about me? Or how does this make you feel about me? And that's a really unsettling and dysregulating experience. The it can go one of two ways. It can go with them, deciding I see where you're going and I'm going to go there with you, or I'm going to support you on your journey. Ernie, or I'm going to really lock myself down. I'm going to hold on to these maladaptive coping mechanisms, like with a death grip, and project my insecurities outward so that I can keep myself safe. That is essentially what happened with my family of origin, and it led to it led to a lot of uncomfortable conversations, and it ultimately led to me needing to remove myself from those relationships. And I think it's so important to know for everyone, boundaries are the thing that keep us safe, and boundaries are things that require practice. Boundaries are things that require a support system to remind you why they're why you're doing them. Most the time when we're putting boundaries in place with people that we're really familiar with, it's really easy to get convinced out of your boundary. For

Nicoa Coach: 31:28

sure, how it was for you? What would give us? How did you feel in the beginning? Were you surprised to have such reactions from them? Or, I mean, did you go into it you were Yeah, no.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 31:41

The whole, my whole journey out of addiction, was really surprising, and it started with the surprise of me acknowledging that I was addicted, and so that was really jarring. Like just, and when you when you've lived your life for almost two decades in a certain way, and then you discover, oh, I didn't realize. I didn't realize an enormous piece of my life, like, I had no idea that there was this enormous thing. It's like getting up every morning and putting on a winter coat and not knowing you're doing it, yeah, like it's and so the the acceptance of that was a surprise to me. Anyway, I grew up in a family environment that was outwardly very supportive of my choices and actions, and so I assumed that my, my next choice in action would also be really supported. And so the the it was surprising for me to be met with those kinds of responses, and quite frankly, it wasn't it was because of therapy, and it was because of my relationship with Tasha that I was able to talk a lot of that out and realize it was the response that I got that really was showing me that I was on the right path, because I don't ever want to respond to anybody who is making an intentional choice to change their health, to be more effective, to be more present, to be more conscientious. I don't want to ever react to somebody that way and to recognize that I was I was being met with so much friction, said something. And part of what it was saying was I was doing the right thing, like, part of what if, if the response is, don't do this. Come back here and do this. I definitely need to be doing more of that. Oh, I'm

Nicoa Coach: 33:22

really, really proud of you. You broke the cycle, man. You're breaking the cycle. Yeah, it's phenomenal. And, oh, go ahead, I was gonna

BRANDON SKILLIN: 33:33

say, I can honestly tell you the biggest victory I've had in this journey is my kids don't remember the fact that I drank. Ah, that's the only thing I care about. Like they were too young to remember. And I was able to stop, and I was able to create a life that was so different that they just can't imagine it, and they don't remember it and and honestly, that that's the only win I need. Like, that's the only thing anytime somebody Well, can I

TASHA SKILLIN: 33:56

speak that real quick? Because it wasn't the only thing you did. You said, the last six years rebuilding those relationships? Oh, for sure. Well, it's an important part, because so many people stop drinking, and that's not enough, because you still don't have the coping mechanisms to deal with relationships and friction and misunderstandings and communication, just by not doing the thing, the bad thing that you used to do. And you put a lot of work and a lot of a lot of effort into continuously coming back to you that wasn't the most effective way to deal with that. That wasn't how I wanted to show up in that relationship, that wasn't how I wanted to say that thing, that wasn't how I wanted to hold space. And so you

Nicoa Coach: 34:31

did a lot of work to relationship with your family members. Now that's healthier.

TASHA SKILLIN: 34:36

Sorry, no, no, not, not as the family of origin our kids, just yeah, see your

Nicoa Coach: 34:41

family. So the family of origin, we wish them well. We bless their hearts, and we move them along, and we we've thanked them for showing us what we did not want. Thank you very much, right? And they educated you on why people behave that way, and you are absolutely right. Boundaries create mirrors around us. And I actually was dancing in the kitchen this morning. You might have seen me crying and losing my shit because I woke up singing an Adele song I'd never heard of. I mean, I'd heard the song, but I didn't know what it meant. So I'm like, the lyrics. And I read the lyrics, I was like, What the Oh, my God. And I lost it. I literally, and they were big, giant crocodile tears, and I wasn't now, this is gonna sound weird, but y'all will get it. I was really grieving, but I wasn't upset. Yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 35:30

the. I was like, wow, this

Nicoa Coach: 35:33

is so wild. And I was like, Oh, I guess I got a bunch of shit to get out, but it made some people in my world uncomfortable. So I was like, I know y'all are uncomfortable so good, because I'm gonna be even more authentic in my way of being and I just commend you both for being truth tellers. You know, I wrote that down truth telling you actually also shared publicly back in October of 2021 why I randomly clicked on that video of you and your one of your children singing the best song ever and talking about LGBTQ, Tia, all the letters. I just thank you for being a truth teller. I'm not gonna I don't really need to talk about everybody's sexuality today. But what's your philosophy about you? I think the phrase you said was being open and freeing yourself from hiding behind those masks. Do you want to talk about that at all.

TASHA SKILLIN: 36:32

I mean, I could the amount of amount I want to talk about that is is unimaginable. The freedom that we get from watching another person be their full selves is one of the most magical human interactions, I think I've ever experienced. And you just don't think that that's going to happen from watching your kids become who they are, because as as the memo we got us as parents is like you got to show your kids, you got to guide your kids, you got to lead your kids, you got to mold your kids, and all of these pieces. But my experience in parenting is is literally the opposite. I started out that way, and I've spent the last six years preparing that that intention and the relationships. But what I've learned is that when it comes down to and this is actually something we have all in all of our clients, our entire community, is fiercely protective of the people they love. They are fiercely advocating and active activists for the causes and the things that they care about in the world, they have a really hard time showing up for themselves in that way. And I know for both of my kids, I can see moments where I could not unsee the world the way that I was able to see it. So when I when I had my son, I was, you know, 26 and had been in a really tumultuous relationship with my father for about 10 years. We had a really good relationship with the big relationship with the beginning of my childhood, but the last 10 years were really rough, and it had been a lot of like, push and pull for me, like I knew I needed stronger boundaries, I knew I knew we needed more distance, because we just could, we could not get on the same page. We couldn't be in a healthy relationship. And there was a moment about a week and a half after my son was born where I realized, Oh no, this shit is not happening again, like this is never, this is never going to be the way it has been, and this is ending this way forever. And it did. It was never the same way. And when our youngest discovered on the drive home from school one day that they had feelings for a girl, and they just didn't know what to do with it, because it was where we live. That was not a thing that they saw a lot of. And I realized it only within the 15 minutes of driving home, how many people were gonna have a hard time with that. I was like, Oh, well, now I have to fucking blow this place up. Like, I can't, I can't have this be their fight. And it set me free in ways that I didn't know that it was going to I was terrified, because I knew it was gonna lose things I'd seen. You know, for decades, we've all seen people who lose parts of their life because they come out, whether it's coming out as a autistic person or as a gay, lesbian, trans person, like, whatever you're you're not matching society's norms. It just was as crazy. I just didn't I have never felt so compelled to be like, fucking, bring it. Like, bring it. I'm getting bulldozing anything out of the way, and what we have learned in that experience with our kids and with watching each other do versions of this is that the more free we become in these little nuances of who we are, these little flavors and slices of who we are, the more free other people are around us and there. Yes, we lose relationships. But also I, I do believe that we're intended to become more free, to free each other, because eventually those people will find a freedom for themselves in whatever chapter of life that they are meant to or they won't. But I am no longer going to perpetuate that just the right way to be a professional, this is the right way to be a mom, this is the right way to be whatever. Well,

Nicoa Coach: 39:54

that's right. It's about a belief system, and those are limiting beliefs, that there's a right or wrong way, and that keeps us all in the box that society wants us to stay in, to stay a bit a bit controlled, if you will. And I see you and I'm making myself choked up no mercy, because I happen to be a mother of a child who happens to be transgender, and I never when people ask how my child's doing, I always say, living their best life, living their best freaking life. And it's not about. Being transgender, it's not about being transgender. That was just the, you know, that just had to happen. We just had to get that was just an uncovering and unboxing, yeah, literally, an unboxing, right? Oh, my God. I

TASHA SKILLIN: 40:45

love that. I love that and unboxing. That's a great way to look at it. Yeah, I'm

Nicoa Coach: 40:48

really proud of you guys. You got so you're unschooling. Could you define unschooling for people? I did homeschool my kids for a year once, which meant I wanted to get them out of the school system, and then I paid a bunch of money for some sort of online school that sucked, but they did it. But I'm just I wish. So I'm 55 you guys are younger than me. Your kids are younger. I wish I was 25 again and could do it again, like, oh my

TASHA SKILLIN: 41:16

earlier too. So here's the thing,

BRANDON SKILLIN: 41:19

here's the thing about that. We started talking about doing this when our children were babies, and when we were in our 20s and we had babies, we looked at each other or like, we are not qualified to teach children anything other than how to not die. And so you can want to go back all you want, but you're still going to be dumb as shit in 20 every single time. Exactly,

TASHA SKILLIN: 41:42

yeah, exactly. You're

Nicoa Coach: 41:44

right. I was working full time. I wasn't even there. Good luck. You know, it's

TASHA SKILLIN: 41:51

a privilege to be able to unschool because there are a lot of logistics that go into that. But, you know, unschooling for us has become about rules and rebellion. It's about looking at the rules that are, we're we are forcing our kids to follow in a system that was not designed for them to succeed, and looking at our two kids who are just, you know, when kids are little, they're they're light. I mean, they're just, they're just beaming light and joy and curiosity and fun and no inhibitions and all of those things. And what we started to notice through elementary school with our oldest is that light got dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, and he became more cautious and more careful, and it just it started to give us an ick more than just an occasional Ick. And we were fortunate enough to be able to put them in Montessori school thinking that would be an alternative, to give them something a little bit more room to expand into who they are. And ultimately, the same problems that happen in any kind of community that is run by, you know, adults who are not also informed on how to include a wide variety of human experiences, and the bullying was was just, was too much. And our kids are very different in a lot of ways, and we tried to give them both more what they needed through this Montessori experience, and we just realized it just still wasn't doing what we wanted it to do. And so we started unschooling, and it was Brandon talked about how it was surprisingly easier for me than it was for him.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 43:18

Yeah, it was really annoying to me. It was for you, and how hard it was for me. I was so positive I was going to be cool with it, and it terrified the shit out of me.

Nicoa Coach: 43:27

Why did it terrify you? Um, because

BRANDON SKILLIN: 43:32

it's the only, the only real place that I get wrapped up in. Are we doing the right thing is with the kids, it's the only place for the rest of it. Fuck it. Fuck it all. I don't really care. It's gonna shake out. But the only real place that I get really neurotic about is this the right path to choose right? It's with our kids, and it was, I don't know, I wanted to try to find in it a structure that didn't exist so that I could feel more comfortable with what we were doing. And I'm so glad Tasha just kept telling me, like, dude, just shut the fuck up and walk away. I've got this one. You're managing everything else. And that was also part of it. I was

TASHA SKILLIN: 44:22

in this you were you were not calm enough to be able to see No, I

BRANDON SKILLIN: 44:26

was still. I was still working multiple jobs to keep everything running. I was still. I was our our food journey because of the fact that Tasha and both kids have chronic illnesses, is bananas and I've got to do all this crazy ass cooking that is not quick and easy. And so I was chronically dysregulated. And then you take that chronic dysregulation, and then you throw on top of it the anxiety of, are we fucking up our children, right? And I just was not available to be to be chill about it at all. I had to take up a baton, which is great,

TASHA SKILLIN: 45:04

so and so, yeah, unschooling is when you are using daily life experiences to teach your kids skills to help your kids develop skills and habits in the the mindset to function in the world. And so we were using normal life, things like they used to more than 100 years ago, to teach their kids, you know, to teach kids how to be humans. And we found it challenging a way we couldn't have expected. But ultimately, I think. I still think it was the best choice for both of our kids. They're more confident now than they were three years ago, as a result of them not having to conform and constantly use the mental, mental energy to figure out how to do the right thing and say the right thing in an environment where is just, you know, so many pieces and parts of stress and, you know, the Adventists of over the last 10 years of being in the school system.

Nicoa Coach: 45:54

I'm really pleased that you did it, and it is different than homeschooling, because that's more of a structure where there's curriculums, etc, and groups that you can go and participate with. So yeah, when we homeschooled, although they had the online thing, I remember just trying to find every which way, but lose to educate them on, like the local oyster harvesting, like I would, oh, we're going to the talk. We're going to this. We're going and they were, they were not, they were already older. They were in 10th grade, yes.

TASHA SKILLIN: 46:28

And so that's when we started. Also, ours were older, because it happened in the pandemic? Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 46:34

I love the pandemic. I mean, oh, sorry everybody. I'm like, woke us up. I remember saying to one of my kids, because they were all freaking cheating. They were all like, looking at they were all like, we're going over to someone says house to take the test. I'm like, Are you really now? Because that just doesn't seem right at all. So do I teach integrity right now or what? And then finally, I was like, I don't give a shit. Like, I don't care, like, what you it's a game. You're resourceful. I'm proud of you. Good job. Like, it's up to you if you think you can head back into class A year later and still get the job done. And I tried to reframe schooling to say, look, just play the game. Just get the game done, and then you have more freedom in this game. So if you're gonna, if we're gonna stick to the path that everybody and their mama is in, then just master the freaking path and then get the hell out, so you have freedom.

TASHA SKILLIN: 47:28

And I think that's the part that is missing from so many conversations right now that we don't believe that what we did was the right way, and people having kids in school systems is the wrong way. But understanding what is actually happening is important. Yeah, understanding that the pool sim is not actually preparing you for for your real life is really important conversation to have, which is where the rules rebellion, which is where the complex life circumstances comes into play, which is where understanding how burnout actually happens, happens this perfectionism mindset that perfectionism in in in people's lives has increased 80% since the 90s, 80% research shows, because of the difference in the school system and the increase in testing and the increase in pressure for teachers to produce kids who test well, versus the lack of testing that we had in the 80s and 90s and before that, even less and it was more of a community environment of learning skills. I mean, obviously the school system was designed to put out factory workers, but this the systems have just gotten more strict and more more singularly focused on producing scores that show something rather than people who are and can navigate the world in a way that is not just producing an end result for the bottom line of somebody else's company, but also producing a quality of life that the kids deserve. And that's when we were like, and that's a hard pass. We're not going to do that target.

Nicoa Coach: 48:50

No, I'm glad you did that. I want to talk about how your perspective then on how to get this audit, this nervous system regulated. Because, I mean, let's really look at the storyline. So even though your kids are unschooled and that you guys have gone through an awakening, if you will, with your own trauma, we still are affected by so many factors that are out of our control. And my clients, your clients, are coming in and and, you know, interestingly enough, my voice has probably dropped to octave since I regulated. And am I look healthier. I look younger. I look better. I mean, when I quit the corporate world 15 years ago, I pretty much stuck like this, and my whole energy was up here. And I was like, Hey everybody, okay, oh my God, look older and ragged now I do like a good filter, but I will say that was not nicoa. That was that was not my authentic self. My authentic self is what we're doing right now. How do you guys begin with the autonomic nervous system? Conversation with your clients, with each other. Talk a little bit more about that.

TASHA SKILLIN: 50:03

Well, the funny thing is, with each other, that was a delicate dance to be able to say. And actually, I'll let you tell that brief story about how I was the one that nerd learned about nervous system regulation first and started integrating it. Started integrating it into my day to day practices first. I had the luxury of doing that because

BRANDON SKILLIN: 50:18

I was lying about and couldn't do anything else. All Brands call it a luxury. I'm just saying,

TASHA SKILLIN: 50:22

comparatively to just saying the the availability in the day, I had more availability to do that than you did, and you're

Nicoa Coach: 50:29

all jacked up. Brandon, raw. Walking by the bed, she's like, well, if you would just breathe, everything will be okay.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 50:36

Yeah, the Tasha when? So here's the thing, when Tasha gets a new bone, it's hard to let it go, especially when it is truly, truly the key that unlocks so much shit, and so it was always, in the beginning a really like a game of, where can we find all the hidden places that Brandon can regulate his nervous system while he's running around the house looking like a lunatic. And it not that it wasn't warranted and not that I shouldn't have been regulating my nervous system as much as she was telling me, it is not necessarily the thing you want to tell a dysregulated person with such enthusiasm, I think would really be the way that it went. Well, I was thinking

TASHA SKILLIN: 51:22

about the time where we were having an argument, you and I were having some kind of conversation that got heated, and I was calm, and you were so and it was so annoying. You're so angry, so

BRANDON SKILLIN: 51:31

fucking annoying, because I was so used to our arguments going a certain way. Yep, one of us would bring a problem. We would talk about it really calmly for a while, and then I would probably latch on to something, and then we would go round and round and round in circles. I would quite literally follow Tasha around the house while we both tried to figure out how to get out of this argument, and then when we would be frustrated, and then we wouldn't talk to each other for a couple hours, and then we pretend it wouldn't happen. It was a really predictable system. And so Tasha started learning about nervous system regulation, and we were having a conversation, and I was getting more and more frustrated because she probably wasn't seeing what I saw, and I was getting more and more frustrated, and she was just still sucking, fucking so smooth. And I was like, What is going on with you? Like, what are you not telling me? And it felt like she was keeping something from me, because she was so calm and she was like, nothing. I understand what's going on. I don't think that there's anything I can do about it right now? Why don't we take a break? And I'm like, motherfucker, we need to fix this today. Like this needs to get done now. And it was just this round and round. And she was like, I just need to take I just needed to take 15 minutes and just go for a walk or something, and then I promise we'll come back to it. And I did that and came back. And she was just still super goddamn calm. And I was like, Okay, what were we talking about? Like it was just so out of it that I didn't even know why I was coming back. I just knew I was supposed to. Oh, that's

Nicoa Coach: 53:03

such a great example. I mean, plus Brandon, what you're describing is, first of all, you're you when you hide, when you start raising the voice, or whatever. These are skills you learned growing up. These are I'm not being heard. So if all these other ways aren't getting through, then I better get louder. So I, you know, speaking for a friend, I can relate. But let's talk about Tasha. How did you get to that space of calm? Tell us some of the techniques you've used. You know, I got a handful, but it sounds like you mastered it rather quickly there. Well,

TASHA SKILLIN: 53:35

once I learned that the my symptoms, my physical symptoms, were exasperated by dysregulation, I was like, this shit is not I can't, I can't. I gotta figure this out, because I was in so much pain. Like literally had skin around my heel. My eyes were peeling. I couldn't handle light and sound. I had to have earplugs in and dark root, dark room, like this was truly born out of survival. I mean, this was not like, I'm gonna go learn something cool today, like it was, I understand to get out of this place. I genuinely, at that point, didn't know how much time I had left, because I just didn't have any kind of diagnosis that were prognosis that was going to be helpful. And so I don't want to be like, I just am that smart, and I just took that action. It was, it was survival oriented. I understand the things that I learned was just understanding that when your vagus nerve is activated, you don't have access to the part of your brain that you need to be able to have a conversation. That's that's collaborative or core creative. You don't have access to your brain. That's problem solving, thinking long term. So once I learned, I'm like, Well, I don't want to operate from that, because that's my fucking problem. Because that's my fucking problem. It's been my problem for so long, and I some of the techniques that I learned early on were breath work. And the very first time I did any kind of meditative anything, I was actually forced to do it because I was an acupuncture I didn't that was literally the first time in my life that I can con i can tell you, I was holding still and paying attention to what my body was doing, and that fear because of fear, because I was scared of all these meals around me. I didn't know it was gonna happen if I moved right. And so in that moment, I became aware of my body and how, how I could have that experience out of it. And so becoming more mindful gave me the opportunity to pay attention to my heart rate because of my physical symptoms with me. My heart palpitations were happening. So I was aware that when I calm my breath down, it slows your heart rate, which is allowing me to not be in that elevated state. And so those things, ultimately my favorite, my favorite techniques, became cold therapy, putting an ice pack on my chest and doing EFT tapping that those are my go to now that EFT tapping with my. Set work was a game changer, because I did so many years of mindset work that didn't that, you know, hit a wall, because there's only so much you can you can't think your way out of burnout. You can't think your way out of trauma. You have to integrate the physical side of things. And these, these practices cycling through not every practice, not every technique, worked through all the phases of my healing journey. I had to have some that are just at the beginning, and then some that I've only been able to use over the last two years, because I wasn't capable of sitting still that long to do them at the beginning. Well, I just want

Nicoa Coach: 56:01

to tell people what EFT is an emotional freedom technique, which is a tapping practice, which I have done as recently as yesterday, because when I get anxious and I need to remind myself with that mindset shift, when you combine the mind shift mindset or the language that you are telling yourself with EFT, then it actually calms you. You feel safe again, and I'm all about it. And you know, people think that you somehow heal, and then you don't have to do these practices anymore, but these coping mechanisms and these calming mechanisms, they may be a lifetime partnership for your body and your soul, and I don't know, I'm assuming, you're still leveraging these practices to today,

BRANDON SKILLIN: 56:47

multiple times a day, yeah, like, this is A cornerstone of our life, right? There's no, well, I mean, it's not even, it's like brushing your teeth. I can't even imagine living in a world anywhere where we don't regulate our nervous system, like, that's just, it'd be so weird for us to be like, yeah, it's been weeks, yeah, if it's been weeks, this whole fucking thing's on fire. Like, there's no, you

Nicoa Coach: 57:09

know, people are numbing out. I mean, they're going to their addiction, they're going to their numb out practices that they already have, coping mechanisms they are now. Yeah, so what they're and they might say, you know, I've heard a client say, Well, you know, I'm good, I'm fine. And I'm like, okay, but there, I'm like, you're getting your goals met over here, but you're not even willing to go address these other areas of your life that you've just, people just give up on them. They just give up on well, you know, I can't really have a relationship that's I have to compromise, or I can't really have, you know, the lifestyle that I want. You know that's not available to me. And the truth is, all of it is available to you and and I want to shift now to the fact that you guys really do help your you got, you call it the village. You've got a village community memberships that people can join in and you help them with their visioning. So a lot of people are so stuck in the isness. Mean, I really again, back to the both of you being in those moments, in your own trauma, to be able to trust, or somehow tap into the faith that you could have something different, that there is something different than this, and I have access to that. How did you get yourselves there? I mean, couldn't have just been the amazing vision boarding exercises that you teach, but it certainly was not, especially

TASHA SKILLIN: 58:28

not at the beginning, because the vision board exercise at the beginning was just another tool for burnout. For me to be honest with you, in the early 2000s talk more about that, because

Nicoa Coach: 58:36

people are all checklist in their ice bath, and they're whatever, and they're 5am wake up shit, and they're Sun basking. I'm like, oh my god, y'all chill out. I need a fucking nap.

TASHA SKILLIN: 58:52

And that's that's the the frustrating part about a lot of the internet self help tips that are out there is it's just another thing to shame yourself for not doing enough of or doing enough of the right things for and the reality is, is that the very first thing that we focus on in our in our with our clients, and that we continuously come back to with ourselves, whether it's in our own practice or helping each other to come back to that with our kids and everybody is, yes, nervous system regulation practices as a habitual just like you brush teeth and you shower like, that's just what you do to maintain your nervous system health in this world. Because, like, as to your point earlier, you can't make the world stop being a shit show. Like, it's still gonna be a dumpster fire. But how you show up to it, and what you do in reaction to it, is a choice that you can make. But also understanding that the village lost my train

Nicoa Coach: 59:41

of thought, the insistence of there has to be some sort of routine, which I liked when you talked about that, yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 59:48

the routine has to match where what you actually need this. This insistence that you have to have the same routine every single day is so counterproductive to what your goals are and what your life is and what your life is. Right? We woke up today to our oldest being in second day of recovery, of a flare up our second being exhausted by our second, our youngest being exhausted by being in their luteal phase, I'm in my ovulatory phase. So we have different energies there. Yeah, branding up better sleep last night than the night they've done. He done the night before we had a master class. Like our days are not the same as it was yesterday. Neither is anybody else's. And trying to match the streak of consistency of like I need to hit 30 days in a row, he's doing the exact same. Thing is the so ineffective that you can have as many fucking ice baths as you want, and you're not going to be regulated, okay? And if you have a cycle, understanding that that needs your your menu is what one of the tools that we use, the small, medium, large menu of your self care practices, is actually way more effective than saying I have to do these 17 things every single day or I have somehow sabotaged my success. It's just absurd. And so instead of having this external list that you have to follow that has been deemed by some cis, het, able bodied Christian, rich, white man every day, looking at your asking yourself, once you've regulated, what do I need? What do I want? We just found it to be more effective for each individual's life journey to say, Okay, today I actually need more rest than I thought I was going to, and I'm going to honor that by doing this self care practice from my small menu, because that's the amount of time I have, or that's the amount of energy I have, or today I am bouncing off the walls. I have so much energy. What are the things I can do that I want to make some progress into my creative goals that I can use in my self care journey. That is not something I always have access to. And so this small, medium, large menu that starts with what do I need and what do I want? Not what do I need to do, but what do I need and what do I want that is aligned, long term, with my values and my goals is the game changer for ourselves and our own and our own and our clients in the village and our private coaching clients,

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:54

beautiful, yeah, I always invite people if you what you're talking about is tapping into your intuition, really, and giving yourself permission to actually do what you want to do. Now, the fear that people bring up is, well, if I do what I want to do, I'd be laying on the sofa all day eating chips and not getting anything done. It's like, that's not actually what you

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:02:14

want to do, you know, well and and so it's so interesting to me when one of the one of the first things that we talk to people about is getting yourself to a place where you can ask yourself, what do I want? What do I need? And it not being I need to get up and go take care of the kids. I need to go do this, and I need to go do that. Need to go do that, or I need a fucking three week vacation in Fiji. Like, Sure, that sounds really wonderful, but do you honestly think in this moment of your life you're gonna be able to park your ass on a beach for more than three days in a row without freaking out about all the stuff that you're not getting done because of all the guilt you have, because of all the shit you signed up for while you were dysregulated, and the answer is no. And so recognizing that that is true, a three week vacation would be nice, and in the exact same moment it is not actually emotionally possible for you to accept it. Let's come back to our physical body. What does your body need today? Not, What do you need to go do? Not, What would you like to be able to experience? But, like, do your feet hurt? Are your shoulders up around your ears? Are you clenching your ass the entire time you're sitting at your desk? Like, what does your body need? Yeah, what do you want to be able to give it? Are two completely different ways to approach how to start caring for yourself, because it comes back to this physical system. Because what we learned with nervous system regulation, your physical system tells your brain to freak the fuck out if your physical system is not calm and so coming back to what do you need being about your physical system first, helps you get into your body that then allows you to zoom out and go, You know what? I only have the capacity to do three out of the 30 things i i obligated myself to do today. I've got to make some phone calls. Brandon,

Nicoa Coach: 1:04:05

you talk about being a recovering perfectionist, and I loved you said your call sign is satisfaction, I love that. So can you give us an example of a time where you recognized, holy, crap, I just made a conscious choice that served a bodily need, and I didn't do it out of a state of anxiety or stress. Like do you remember when it started happening. One of the things I encourage people is start looking around when it starts happening. Because once it starts happening, you got to really foster more of that and commend yourself for because that's the evolution, that's the shift, that's the change. You remember an example

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:04:45

I do, I think, I think for me, it's a little because of the fact that I was an alcoholic for 18 years, and then, after that experience, while in the really deep part of Tasha and the kids chronic illness journey before we figured out how to honestly get them all out of bed. Yeah, there was disordered eating that I developed as well. And so because of my because of my stuff, I've had to be hyper vigilant afterwards. Yeah, and I think what's interesting for me, personally, more so is that I am aware of choices I've made, like even even today, like today I got I don't enjoy getting up early. And I'm working real hard on changing that, because it's not effective anymore, and I'm not 20. But so I got up early enough to be able to put food into my body on purpose, because I know, because of old routines, that if I don't eat in the morning, that I'm not eating until three or four o'clock in the afternoon, when I have a lot of stuff to do. And being able to sit down and consciously make those kinds of choices are the places that it all. It's not big stuff. It's never, ever the big stuff. Yes, it's, well, it's so easy to prepare for the big shit, because you know it's coming. But like today, I need to make sure I eat three meals, and fruit and vegetables are a part of them. And so what are the little choices? And for me, those little choices were I'm gonna choose to take something with me when I'm on the road, as opposed to leaning on all this crap that I usually eat because of the fact that I'm trying to change my habits and my routine, yeah? And so it's all about these time. And honestly, like choosing to go on a walk, yeah, is an act of self care and care for my family. Because if I'm choosing go on a walk, I'm not, I'm not socially consumable. And so it's those little moments that I think is really where those choices show up in the most and for me, it's just in in opposition to what I used to do. I am an interior designer also, and a lot of what I asked my clients in the beginning is, I need you to tell me everything you hate so that I don't ever bring those things into conversation, so we don't waste any time. It's it's really helpful for me to make decisions based on something I I don't want to have happen, rather than things that I do want to happen, and because I've had the experience. And so I know I want to be able to eat more often because I used to not be able to. What does that mean? And what choices do those mean for me? You You

Nicoa Coach: 1:07:30

had to be able to observe what was happening in the moment, though, to be able to ultimately know what you didn't want, in order to then choose what you did want and how the impact of what you think you want is having on your lifestyle. So it really becomes all about being the observer of self. So I love that you have this village of people that you're partnering with. And obviously we could all talk all day long. I must say that same thing every interview around this point, but I could talk about all of this forever, which means I'm going to interview you guys again in the future. We'll have to dive even deeper into some other topics, probably, but talk to us about how you have leveraged your offerings. And Brandon, I didn't even get to talk about creativity. Oh, my God. Like, I really want to talk about that, but how, how do you kind of onboard members of your village? Like, what is the offering? How can people you know learn about that? Yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:08:29

thanks for asking. We onboard with nervousness and regulation like that is the first that is the first job of anybody who's joined the village is to just embody and embrace the draft process of figuring out which nervous system regulation practices they can tolerate, because not every technique is going to work for every person one of the times right now.

Nicoa Coach: 1:08:47

What do you mean the draft process? Oh, how you bring them in or not, whether or not they can

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:08:51

even so drafts are, we'll have to come back and talk about that for sure. Because no, no, this is one of the important parts of recovering from perfectionism, is that a lot of us in perfectionism get stuck on doing it the right way, or not at all, doing it all of it, or don't do it at bother it, don't, you know, 100% or not at all. And it really eliminates progress for someone who's stuck in that fight or flight. That's fight or flight space. So draft mode is when you apply something knowing that's not going to be the final final result. It's when you try something knowing that this is not going to be the last time I get to do this. This is not the last time this is going to this comes from conversations, boundaries, any kind of effort. And so going into when you join the village, you get 10 nervous system regulation techniques sent to you, so you start figuring out and drafting. Does this one work for me? Does this one work for me? How well does this work? We have a client right now who has the capacity to only do 15 to 20 seconds of a nervous system regulation practice, because it's really dysregulating to calm your nervous system down. And so understanding that process is important, and once they can start practicing this without the expectation of it having to work in a certain way, or had this one has to work because it's the only one they saw on tick tock that day. And they're in an environment where they come and ask questions like, you know, I tried this, and it actually made me more more activated, more dysregulated, what's going on, and us being able to answer those questions in our 2q A calls each month, or in our online community, they have this ongoing support to integrate this practice, because once you have that nailed down, once you know what things can work, literally everything else that you want becomes more accessible. And so the onboarding process is nervous system regulation. And then this practice that we were just talking about, like, what do I want? What do I need? This coming back to yourself rather than. Reacting, responding to all the demands outside, coming back to yourself rather than following the rules you've been following for so many years, coming back to yourself rather than staying up until two o'clock in the morning eating chips and watching pretty well dude or from in my in my experience over researching something so that I didn't actually have to implement it, and it be scary and nervous to put myself out there. So those that's the onboarding process of the village, is getting people safe in their bodies again, so that they can start taking action in a way that they've been wanting to and trying to for, oftentimes, decades. Oh,

Nicoa Coach: 1:10:59

my God, so much to still learn. And I've been coaching for 15 years. You know, I wish I'd had as many skills in the beginning, I had a client once that I tried to just simply do a scan from the top of her head down to her feet, we couldn't get past the neck. Yeah, yeah. She almost freaked out, and I was not prepared. I was like, okay, yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:11:24

no, until that's happening.

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:11:26

So to your question that you asked me earlier, like, what were the thing? What was I noticing? How did I start making choices that clued me into this is what I needed to do for myself, or nervous system regulation, I was able to see the difference from what I didn't want to options to get me somewhere else, right? But the biggest thing was, is I literally had Tasha saying you're still dysregulated or saying, Hey, I know one of the things you're working on is you want to be putting more nutrient dense foods in your body, and I know you're working really hard to take all care of all of us, but I'm not seeing you eat a lot. You're feeding me, but you're not feeding yourself. And so there was this external observer that I signed off on, and which is a big deal, yeah, and that is really one of the biggest things that the village provides for all of our members, is it's so hard to know the normal shit that you have going on in your life isn't what everybody else considers to be normal, and when you see that your shit is not normal, it is mind blowing to realize how hard you're working when you did not know other people weren't working that hard at this one thing, yeah, and, and the the collaborative observation and the collaborative communication that we have in our Q and A calls, we will get people from all all ranges of life and all ranges of experience with their own personal self care. And so we'll get questions that people will go shit. I didn't even know that that was a question to ask. I didn't realize I was just regulated doing that. How the fuck do I get out of this? Because I thought I had it all nailed down, and so it's this community of people saying we're safe to hold space, let's talk about what's going on so that we can acknowledge what's going on has to happen because it's part of our life, but it's also challenging, and we could really use some tools to be able to make it a little less challenging so we could do more of what we more of what we want, which is really the goal,

Nicoa Coach: 1:13:36

and they recognize that they're normal and they're not alone. And right, coming together in community is the new way. I mean, this is the new, you know, self awareness and mental health. And what was the there was some meme the other day talking about, I don't want to see your, uh, your dating record, or I don't want to see your your paycheck. I want to see your mental health, you know, psychiatrist meals, like, I want to know how much work you've been doing. So, yeah, you guys have really created this beautiful community to help help people help themselves, but also hold them accountable. Was to your point signing off on this third party, that the Safe Third Party, which is why I love coaching so much, is because I am that safe third party that's only there to champion you. It's not about me, it's about you. So, yeah, you also have a podcast Tasha, you. You. So we're both podcasters. I listened to one of them the other day. You're boldly becoming you podcast. Is there anything you'd like to share about that? Are you still actively doing those? Yeah,

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:14:38

so the reality is that that podcast is more sporadic this year than it has been in previous years, because we're honoring the complexities of our life this year, where we've had a couple of flare ups in our family the last couple of last six months or so that has interrupted the can the weekly post, but there's over 220 episodes at this point. Oh yeah, and you've got a lot, and I have been doing the episodes mostly together over this last year. And so the podcast started out as a passion project for me, has turned into this community resource of hope and tactical, practical solutions, of, you know, connecting one.to the next to the next, as well as just fun shares from our life that we hope help other people see that it's normal to be struggling and still thriving at the same time sometimes.

Nicoa Coach: 1:15:23

Well, I think that you guys are role modeling beautifully, because they do share your authentic struggles, but you also share. Barrier wins, and I like your very intentional life by design. Love by design. One of my favorite things that you guys do is your vision walks when you can do them daily, if you can right, tell us a little bit about your vision walks, and then we'll see if there's anything else you want to share before we wrap up.

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:15:49

So this is a special This is a has a special meaning for both of us, because in 2017 when I was diagnosed with me CFS, I wasn't able to walk downstairs, much less take a walk around the block, and I had spent the previous 10 years working so hard to build a business because I thought that was what would maybe make me a good mom and made me a good partner. That we didn't have a lot of those walks. I mean, we maybe have taken three walks at that point in our in our relationship, and so one of the nights when we were laying in bed before we had gotten the diagnosis, but close to like within that month, where we knew that's what it was, we were grieving, both laying and crying like this. Can't be it like this. Can't be we didn't come back together to just have this be the rest of our lives. So, you know, through all the years of all the things we just talked about, plus, you know, a bunch of other stuff, of healing and getting to the point where I could actually walk not just out of the bed to the bathroom, but also down the stairs and down the hall, and then walk into two stores. When we started traveling full time, I was like, I think, you know, I think I can walk around this block. And so we would take a walk around the block. And for the so for the really, for the last two years, it has been in place for us to remember how far we've come while visioning and preparing for and dreaming together about where we're going. And it has become this celebration of our relationship, of our progress and our family, of our healing, of the breaking of cycles, like you said, while also creating space to practice looking at where we want to be next, where we want to go next. This is not something I have a lot of practice with in my personal history. Well, I was very much a worrier. How do I prevent catastrophe? I couldn't really see big picture for a long time. And so this walk has become a daily practice of us celebrating our our progress and preparing for our future, because we can now see much bigger, brighter, more adventure filled future together. So we talk about what we want to build and also talk about the things we're processing and things we're proud of ourselves for the abundance we're experiencing

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:17:49

now on these walks well, and it's co regulation, like there are many walks where one of us starts out massively anxious, and so we it is a total pissed or pissed, or we live in a home where our children are here all the time, and sometimes we need to vent about them, and we can't do it with them here, because we like them and we don't want to take them to take anything out of contact. And so it's, it's a, it's a really wonderful way for us to co regulate as well, because chronic illness is forever, and all of the stuff that we had to do to get us to this point, we had to, we had to live it, we had to grieve it. We had to process it in real time and it sometimes we didn't get a chance to talk to talk to each other about it, and it was our goddamn life, because everything was moving so fast. And so these walks really are also a really wonderful way to co regulate, to be able to keep doing the things that we want to do, and just in a way we thought was never accessible to us again, which was amazing because Tasha was in a wheelchair for a long time. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:18:51

you're combining gratitude and you're fostering what you know, it put it all in perspective, that's for damn sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But now you're leveraging that and in a foundation of gratitude and joy and consciously co regulating coupling. I mean, what do they say when, when you can put multiple, you know, visions and focus on something, then it's going to exponentially grow and be possible. So you're really you're designing a beautiful life. And as I you might have seen me say the other days, like, oh my god, I'm so excited about how much more time we still have. Yeah, yeah, I'm celebrating you too. I'm just so grateful to have connected with you, and everything I researched about you, I'm like, Yeah, I say that. Oh, I love that. Yeah, okay. And to and I've learned something today. I've learned even more. So I'm going to keep following you. Is there anything else you want to share about your offerings? And then I'm going to ask you one more question, so I know people can book a clarity call with you, right? And go on your website.

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:19:52

Yeah. We also have a start. Starting their journey from burnout, getting out of burnout or perfectionism. So if you go to rules rebellion.com/starter-kit you can sign up for the free starter kit, and that will give you some resources that you can work through on your own, just to kind of get your you through the initial steps of getting clear on what you want, getting your nervous system regulated and start getting yourself prepared to be able to start taking action. Able to start taking action again, so that you don't feel stuck. And so that would be one of the other things I

Nicoa Coach: 1:20:17

would recommend. That's very generous. And yeah, you guys have a lot of stuff. You can even just Google these guys and you'll find them. And please make sure you're following them on Instagram. I asked this question to all of my clients. At the end of every coaching call, and I ask my guests as well, what is it that you each separately? I want to hear both of your responses. Want to celebrate the most about your life by design. Go ahead

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:20:49

to celebrate the most. I think not. I think I know for me, it is the relationships that I have with Brandon and our two kids are the most joy filled, the most inspiring, the most safe experience I've ever had in my life. And it just gets better each day as I keep showing up to be authentic and honest about what's going on with me, and as each of them show up and are trusting more and more in those relationships, that is the biggest win that I think I could have. I could have never imagined it would feel like it does, and I'm just so grateful every day that that is what I get to experience in my day to day life all day long. It's just such a beautiful gift. Beautiful.

Nicoa Coach: 1:21:33

I love that you use the word Safe, safe to be you and giving them permission to also be safe in their authenticity. So I love that. What about you? Brandon,

BRANDON SKILLIN: 1:21:43

I think, I think very much I agree with Tasha and wrapped up in that. I think one of the things that I'm, yeah, the thing that I wanted, I would celebrate the most is just the ability to be present there. For me, that's a multi faceted experience, because I said 18 years of my life 100% not present on purpose, and the last two years have been wild, like just absolutely the weirdest carnival ride I could have ever imagined as going on, and it has been really hard. It's been really exciting. It's been really challenging. It's been really eye opening. And over and over and over again, I cannot get past the fact that I am having the best time of my life because of the fact that I am 100% here. I am not trying to be anywhere else. I'm 100% involved with what the kids are doing with where Tasha and I are with our business. And over and over and over again, just keep allowing myself to give myself permission to say all of this is mine, and I love that, like there's some shit that I don't want to have happening anymore, and we're working really diligently to make sure that our life is as comfortable as physically possible. But even through the discomfort, I'm so present and so my ability to make choices that are fulfilling and effective and intentional is so much more available than it ever has been. And I I wouldn't trade a single fucking day for it like I love every single every single day, even the shitty ones, it's all mine. Yes, I've never been able to say that. Oh,

Nicoa Coach: 1:23:33

I'm so happy you're saying it. I mean, if we don't realize that we're having a fucking miraculous experience, and we signed up for it, we signed up for this. So I am so grateful that you're celebrating that. I celebrate that with you, for you, both of you and I'm I'm celebrating that you joined me today and that we had this lovely conversation. So thank you very, very much, and I hope we'll do it again one day. Yeah.

TASHA SKILLIN: 1:24:02

Thank you for having us. This is such a great time. This is our first time having an interview just the two of us together, like, ah, yeah. So thank you for thank you for that modeling.

Nicoa Coach: 1:24:12

Look at us. Look at us. Well, I will be posting this in a few months, and I will follow up with you guys, and I thank you. You're amazing, and I hope everybody starts healing even more this week. I hope everybody finds their balance and their regulation. I know they have all the skills in this household. All right, guys, love you. Thanks. Bye.

Unknown: 1:24:39

Thanks for joining us. For a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with nicoa and check out our website, Coffee with nicoa.com and that's nicoa, n, i, c, O, A, we look forward to talking with you soon, and enjoy your coffee between now and then you.