S1 EP39: MICHELLE RIOS OFFICIAL

Nicoa hosts Michelle Rios, the highly-acclaimed host of one of the fastest growing, global podcasts - The Live Your Extraordinary Life podcast – which has quickly risen to the top 2.5% worldwide! Michelle’s relentless pursuit of her own extraordinary life helped her overcome adversity, challenges, and  financial struggles while continuing to overachieve to prove her worth and she succeeded. However, she still felt that something was missing, started listening to that “still small voice” within her, and stepped into her authentic LIFE BY DESIGN. Listen in as Nicoa holds space for her powerful story highlighting a significant quarter life crisis and uncovers some amazingly wise gems Michelle has to offer!

Connect with Michelle

Instagram: @Michelle.Rios.Official

Website: Michelleriosofficial.com

Podcast: Live Your Extraordinary Life available on Apple and Spotify

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Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:00

Hey guys, this is Nicoa I was kind of winging it when I did the following interview, and I want to make sure I do a proper introduction to the beautiful Michelle Rios. Michelle is a highly acclaimed host of one of the fastest growing global podcast, the live your extraordinary life podcast, which has quickly risen to the top 2.5% worldwide. Her relentless pursuit of her own extraordinary life has helped her overcome adversity challenges, financial struggles, and you're about to hear it about her humble beginnings and what turned into a very familiar overachiever mentality. I joke with her that I see her because I resonated with so much of what she's about to share with everybody. You know, Michelle, was in a state of self awareness that most of us take almost half our lives if not longer to recognize and her inspiring story will help help you and help others step into your own authenticity and become what you were always meant to be. And I really hope you enjoy this conversation. I know I did. And I'm just really honored to have this beautiful, dynamic woman, a mother, a wife, she's a speaker, a coach, a Global Traveler, a dog owner, and just an amazing woman. And I'm glad that I can now call her my friend. Please enjoy coffee with Nicola. Grab your coffee and join me Nicola, for a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths, and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Welcome to Michelle Rios official. And that is actually your Instagram account and your website, Michelle Rios. official.com. So, everybody pause and make sure you go check out her site, and I'll put that in the show notes. But we are so honored to have you here today. You are a referral, I believe from our other friends. My other friend Michelle, and I differ, is that correct?

MICHELLE RIOS: 2:16

That's right. That's right. Michelle connected us. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It is such a pleasure to be here with you. And I'm so excited because I think we have had such rich histories that at some point have alignment. And we may have even been on similar journeys are on the path at the same time. So I can't wait to find all those synchronicities.

Nicoa Coach: 2:37

Oh, my gosh, there are so many. And I was remembering them this morning, because it's taken us a few months to get to today's interview. So I had to I had to go back. I was like, Wait, how what? What are we talking about today? And I wanted to share something with you. So ladies and gentlemen, okay, the quick intro, here we go. 20 plus years and like PR, corporate communications, Public Affairs, you work for some of the big ones, you know, Ogilvy advertising you worked at? Is it Mike worldwide is that's kind of a cool organization. Yeah. Mike worldwide. Yeah. So big time in that big PR space at the big corporate American Dream experience. And then, eight months ago, you're out on your own doing a podcast you tell us? You know, let's start with that story of kind of the career and then we'll go backwards. How about that? Yeah, the career hit?

MICHELLE RIOS: 3:29

Well, you know, you gave me even more fresh off the bandwagon because I didn't actually leave. Right? Until match,

Nicoa Coach: 3:38

right? But we forget that most people do not quit spontaneously, like, I forget, I project all the time. So yeah, you were the spirit would

MICHELLE RIOS: 3:49

unwind period. And there was a dance that went on, right? The reality is, I've had this really, I've had the privilege of a very long, successful corporate career, it has really shaped a lot of my life from a lot of my experiences. And I, you know, didn't take it lightly. When I made the decision to make this transition. It's been a long time in coming in the sense that it wasn't that I was leaving a bad situation. I had a lot of autonomy, a lot of ability. I had a lot of long term clients. I love the work itself. And I loved being in a leadership role. And I had been for many years, leading teams and guiding not only clients but also our up and coming rising stars and leaders. So that was a phenomenal experience. But it's the getting to the what next part of my life, right? I could have easily just kept going here, but I think there was this sense of I knew I had more in me more in the tank. I wanted to expand and try new things and push the boundaries. I didn't want to just keep Going at the pace, I really wanted to go into that next level of growth myself. So that was kind of a seed planted a long time ago, I knew at some point, I would have this career and then go do some other things. So I stuck my toe in the water with consulting in this space, because it's an industry I love and know very well and trained for, but I wanted to be doing more inspirational speaking, it's been on my heart for 25 plus years, I knew that I wanted to be speaking on stages, more or less from an industry standpoint and more from a personal development standpoint. I knew I wanted to do more writing, which PR is a perfect career for somebody who wants to write and wants to speak. So I was always in this tag gentle arena, but not as an entrepreneur. And casting, if you had asked me a year ago, if I was gonna launch podcasts, I probably would have looked at you funny and said, You know what? No, that's not what I'm doing. And that indeed, like, around this time, last year, I said, I think I'm going to start a podcast. I really, at conversations, I love, just the ability to go deep in storytelling, which is what I built my career on. Right, storytelling, thanks. Right? So has that been your life by design? Since the very beginning, like this whole piece of I'm gonna be NPR, I'm gonna go with what, you know, how did you get into that career path? Was it very intentional? Or did you fall into it? Completely not. But gosh, thank God for like divine intervention and guidance and alignment, because I was the first to go to college and my family and there were only two career professions back then you were either going to be a doctor or a lawyer. And since I loved it speaking and arguing at the dinner table, it was assumed that I would become an attorney. And that did not happen. So I started down that path, I actually studied for the LSAT, and was really quick to realize that the creative strike streak in me was never going to be satisfied by that path. So took the GMAT, because I said, well, the business right, that will be my parents won't be as angry if I at least study something that's remarkable, respectable. And so I ended up in this sort of international business space there was at Georgetown, I was in the School of Foreign Service and taking the business classes through the business school. And so had this international business arena going on in my career setting and was international organizations, but migrated very quickly to spokesperson, press secretary. Publications, I was in that space marketing, that space sort of just called me more. And then I was in, I was at Ogilvy in public affairs, doing global work for corporations. And I just I realized pretty quickly that I had a knack for it. People would tell me their problems very quickly, like solving for we need to figure this out. And I could really quickly assess, okay, what's the situation? What's the business problem? What are the people problems? And how can we be creating trust in the client that we know what we're doing have a process to go through and we can quickly figure out a lot of it was issues in crisis management, a lot of my career or affairs was issues in crisis work so quick on your feet in this arena, but every single time that get a new client or go through the new business, I was interested more in the people's story that I was in the assignment. And I remember like, what do you like friends with the client? Now? I'm like, yeah, yeah, doing it. And that kind of, I was a little bit of a unicorn. Like a lot of people really liked that, you know, public affairs, animals, the political piece of it, the intrigue, what was happening economically, and I was like, I really like this person. Their backstory is really interesting. It's amazing how they rose to the top, what do you think their best qualities and leadership skill styles are? And so these conversations are happening simultaneously. And I think my colleagues were like, What are you doing? What it was this natural way of being for you? So you know, a lot of people don't allow themselves to go towards what's natural for them. You know, what's organic, and it sounds like you gave yourself permission to be quite authentic during your career, a little bit of a quarter life crisis to kind of get things going, going to be honest. I was 26 I had been working, building a career from scratch. I had left New England I grew up in Maine. I mean, in a small town, I got out of college I was recruited and I was very, I felt very lucky and privileged that during a recession, I got out in the early 90s That I was recruited to this consulting firm. And given a ton of responsibility, I did not know what I was doing, but I was determined to make something of it and I would pour hours into my career hours. And you know, each progression and promotion, I was just, I would outwork, whoever was next to me. That was how I proved my worth. Right. I will outwork everyone around me, because I don't I didn't come from a silver spoon and I had a chip on my shoulder about, you know, not having being part of have nots, and I was gonna earn my seat at the table by working harder. And that was the Schleck. You know, I told myself, I gotten the opportunities because I outworked everyone. It wasn't that I was so much smarter, I was just so much more determined to not give up and to keep going. And I had this mission orientation about me, of you know, my parents were teenagers, when they had me, they were young, they didn't have the same opportunities, there were a lot of sacrifices, I'm now going to pave a path for my younger siblings, there was a lot of, you know, college, I was told by a professor early on, you know, you put too much pressure on yourself, Michelle, and you really shouldn't, you're not coming from the same backgrounds. All these other kids are in private school, they've studied languages for six or seven years, you have a language requirement here, go easy on yourself. And I was so blown away angry that there was I had a huge chip on my shoulder to begin with about having to work harder and not have enough that I was like, hold that you don't think I can watch what happens. And so, you know, I was told I couldn't be a Spanish major because they didn't have the background and the language. And so I said can't or you don't think I'll succeed, and you just don't think it's a good idea? Or is there some, like, rationale that I cannot do? Because they don't have the background? And and there's a formula or something? And they said, so that's really drove you? Do you remember when in your youth that you began to recognize that succeeding was important? Or was it something that you gleaned from your family? Or did you impose it onto yourself? I think early on my parents, I mean, I actually I'm working on a book right now I'm walking through these chapters. It's interesting, that dinner talk at my table was on my parents who were young. But they were very ambitious. And they wanted more for us. I think it was difficult for my parents to go down the journey of being teenage parents, number one, but they have the wherewithal to say, we're going to work hard and blue collar jobs, which is what they had when I was growing up so that our kids understand the importance of using their educational opportunities to do more. So no one had gone to college, but there was a huge pressure that was put on me to make sure I figured out how to get there and do well. You know, I remember sitting at the desk at the breakfast table and we'd be eating our cereal. And my father would be reading the newspaper. And my father comes from meager beginnings. And he was like 10 credit shy of graduating from NC State. Like he was the first one to go to college. I was the first one to go to college female on my dad's side, my brother first on, you know, to finish on my dad's side of the family. He's reading the paper, and all of a sudden, he would close the paper and say, You can't tell me there are no jobs out there.

Nicoa Coach: 14:33

Like so much. You know, and he would say, you know, my father took us to the next level. He moved us across the river from, you know, an impoverished circumstance to the next level and I kind of absorb that. What was you know, like I had to take us to the next level like I can't, you know, there's so many examples. That's exactly what happened. Well, the two the two phrases that are the most common phrases remembered from my childhood were

MICHELLE RIOS: 15:00

I'm failure is not an option. And there are no safety nets. So when you're six or seven, and that sort of a common talk at the table, you just immediately, at least for me, I just kicked into high gear. So there was a, there was a line in the sand. My father is the youngest of eight, in a big Irish Catholic family. So I'm sort of at the bottom of of what cousins but I'm the oldest of three in my family. And there was a big, just shift, when my dad came into the arena in the sense that he, we were still in that financial struggle mode when I was growing up. And he decided that there was not going to be that was not going to happen for his kids. And the interesting part of being at the dinner table and hearing the two phrases, right, failure is not an option, and there is no safety net is you start to realize, like, I have to work hard, and it's not going to be easy. So I don't think the intent was to put a ton of pressure on me, but the intent was for me not to stay there. And so I knew when I was really young, staying in State of Maine, was not an option for me. Interesting, because my parents were like, there aren't the kind of jobs that are really gonna yield success for you're gonna have to think about where you moved to, I was kind of groomed for shifting the dynamics in the family. My sister, interestingly, became went down the medical route, she's a therapist, right? Yeah. The communicator, the therapist, and my brother did become the attorney. So what you need, right and life. And that dynamic of success is really important, we've got to break out of the mold sort of fell on me. And I have a lot of teachers that I'm close with still teachers from high school that are still with us, that reach out to me now and say, We're so happy to see where you are, and you're enjoying life, and you seem to really have come into a place of a being, we were so worried about you in high school, but you put so much pressure on yourself, to get out of that town, to go into college to get the best grades to be, you know, in my mind, I had to be the top because I was competing for limited resources. I came from that scarcity mindset, my parents struggled with money. And so there was never enough. And so in my mind, it wasn't about the linemen or energy, these were foreign terms. At the time, it was about I have to be the number one, because there is no other option for me. So if I don't get a scholarship, I cannot go to college, there isn't a way I didn't, it didn't occur to me that I might get in somewhere other than on merit, and that I might have to take out loans or any of that stuff that just didn't enter the picture. And I think because I had such a very clear vision, I'm gonna go to college, like from yay high to a grasshopper, I'm going to go to college, I have to be on scholarship. And it's going to look this way. is sort of was a fait accompli? I sure yeah. I mean,

Nicoa Coach: 18:19

if as as a man thinketh So is he I mean, you created your reality. What's interesting is that you created a reality based on what you were told to believe. And my question is, what was the cost of never questioning that along the

MICHELLE RIOS: 18:34

path, huge paths huge because of not knowing who I was, right? I mean, that's the bottom line is I was stepping into a role, I was assuming responsibility for moving things forward. And I knew I had other interests. And I knew my heart was in other places at times. And so there was great internal struggle, and like a dutiful older daughter, and first I pressed it down and kept going, because I felt that this one I was supposed to do. And I bought hook, hook line and sinker into the notion that if you work hard, and you achieve, and you win the things, and you get the job and you get the promotions, you will be happy that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And so we get to the quarter life crisis. I was working 6070 hours a week building a career. I was a full tuition scholarship for graduate study at Georgetown. So I felt enormous responsibility to that, and opportunity and I felt enormous responsibility to the job that I went to resign from the job. This is a theme in my life. I said, I'm going like a scholarship. I'm going to school full time for graduate studies. I just come back from our scholarship year overseas as rotary ambassador and they said no, no No, you don't need to quit your job, we love you here, we'll figure it out. You go do grad time, grad school full time, and we'll just we'll figure it out. So what the people in and out came and the cost of that was, and I was, you know, everyone knew I came from more humble background, and I was busting to become, I didn't have a breathing minute to myself, and I was nice. I was in my mid 20s. And I found myself going well, of course, I would go out and I'm burning the candle at both ends, I'm working crazy hours, I am really trying to become the corporate executive. And I am in grad school full time and trying to maintain the highest GPA possible because I'm on a scholarship for two year program. And at the same time, I want to date and I want to go out with friends and I want to explore I don't have any family in DC, I was had moved 600 miles from me, and I didn't have a single relationship here. When I started, I had to build that network from scratch. And it took a toll because I started to not even see until months and that I was burned out physically, physically, not sleeping enough. I wasn't really eating. And you know, there's this interesting dynamic that happened, I would I had this tiny little Geo Metro car, which I don't even think they make anymore because they unsafe car possible, right? Like, they're tiny, like anything, I would be gone. But they fit into any parking space in the city. And so it was perfect for me at the time. And I would fly to work. And I would have no time in between classes and work and work and classes because nothing was just one part of the day, it was all over the map. So all right. There was an a couple from Afghanistan immigrant family that had moved to DC recently, and had purchased a food truck that was planted on the corner of 17th Street in New York Avenue, which for anybody who knows DC that is directly next to the old executive office building and a block from the White House. So you know, we're talking to prime real estate in DC. And they would watch me this young woman run from to in front of they got to know me because I would you know, grab my diet coke, because I was fueled on caffeine and, you know, Doritos during those years. And they would stop me and say Have you eaten today? And I said, Well, I don't have time right now I'm late. I'm late. That was my running thing. And eventually what happened is they would be waiting on the corner with a bag lunch for me. Imagine this. Immigrants from a foreign country with a back line waiting for me, kid from Maine, realizing I'm in a worse spot than they are. Wow. In terms of

Nicoa Coach: 22:52

love that so much. I mean, you never know where an observer of you shows up and can be there for you and support you. And when you share that story, it reminds me of the bowl of grits that used to show up on the corner of my desk as an executive. Because unbeknownst to me, my stay at home husband had called my executive assistant and said she didn't eat breakfast this morning. I know and I've just like, Oh, these people watching us and knowing that we are these overachievers driven by something they cannot relate to? And yet, well, we can't we can't stop them. We might as well help them.

MICHELLE RIOS: 23:37

Right. And it's so interesting because it they became part of my web of my life. And ultimately, like they fed me for two years of graduate school and wasn't the healthiest food but it like embed me It kept me from being worse than I was because there came a point in time where I could not keep going and I didn't realize you know, it sort of builds right you think this one more night, I can do this one more. Week, the weekends coming up. And then eventually it went from me jumping out of bed and getting to the gym and getting to work and get into grad school and going back and forth and studying late and going out all the things and springing out of bed to get my life to increasingly I couldn't pull myself out of bed until eventually I was very debilitated I was getting migraines, didn't connect anything, right? You're going too fast to see the forest through the trees. I was getting migraines, I wasn't eating well. I wasn't sleeping enough. I couldn't put a bed and I was slipping into depression without really being aware of what was happening. And I got to a point where things started to go rapidly downhill. I was went from this great zest and an enormous amount of energy and drive to everything tasted planned by felt blah, and my soul ate it.

Nicoa Coach: 26:01

And you were 26 years old when you had this crisis?

MICHELLE RIOS: 26:05

26 years old. And I think I'm fortunate because,

Nicoa Coach: 26:10

yes, that's the first thing I thought was like, oh my god, Michelle, I'm having this conversation with 40 year olds. 50 year olds. Yeah. And I'm looking, I mean, when you say 26, my son, my firstborn is 26. Yeah, and he's certainly not, he's not striving and burning out. It's a different day, you paved

MICHELLE RIOS: 26:30

the path. And it's, I think it's when my son is 17, or 17. He's 16. And it he often jokes with me, but I know he feels that he's like, I don't have enough adversity. It's not fair. And I'm laughing. We work so hard in order to have a better life for our families than what we had and the ones we experience. But then if you're really cognizant of what adversity does for you, and it's channeled correctly, because I think, look, my story could have gone very differently than it did. But it can really be the difference between achieving a life that is extraordinary by design, because you burn that the accomplishments of overachieving and going across those mountains, gives you confidence to spare. And then you can start to really examine life from a different vantage point. And a lot of people never get there. Because they they get a little bit of taste of an adversity or challenge and they recoil. And so yeah, you never really quite let themselves get into the fire. I mean, when you go through the fires of life, or you're really under a ton of pressure, it's going to do one or two things, it's either going to break you or you're going to become the diamond right diamonds are creating pressure. And so for me, here, it was 26 years old, I started for the first time in my life, I had an exam I did not do well on that is unheard of, in my life, to have like a crisis of identity, right. And I was tired, sick rundown, I got mono nucular Nick mononucleosis. And I was starting to exhibit signs of depression without recognizing that that's what it was. And it was a slow descent to hell, I went from being able to go and do too, I couldn't get out of bed without a lot of effort and struggle and self talk to I could barely get out of bed. And then when I did, that was the intersection of my mind this beautiful, crazy, complicated mind that was going 150 miles an hour, and my soul crying out for relief and breathing space for a sense of autonomy, that I did not allow it. And in fact, I was so discombobulated that I got to a point. And I talk about this openly because I think it's important to share that even the most pulled together people have rough shit that happens. If we're not supposed to say that delete that from the CLI. Then

Nicoa Coach: 29:21

I went and changed it to explicit the other day, because I kept dropping the F bomb. Yes, we all have rough shit that happens. But how did you turn this brain through the

MICHELLE RIOS: 29:33

rough, rough experience because I found myself that particular November day, many moons ago staring out the 10 storey window of my apartment building and my soul crying for freedom. And in that moment of exhaustion and illness and unwell jumping seemed like a really good option. And I was 26 I had a beautiful life and I couldn't feel it anymore. Because I didn't give myself permission or grace to connect with my spirit and my soul. It didn't really know what that meant at that point in my life. And as a course of like that happening. It's not I think, an accident that I'm literally on the edge of jumping out of a window. Not because I was I had suicidal inclinations ever in my life but because I've could feel the freedom of floating out or to should be the height of an indication of the height of how unwell I was in that moment. And yeah, something You pulled me back. And it was like this huge, immediate bolt of wake up. You're sleepwalking, wake up. And I got out of that apartment, I ended up spending the day on a bus with a bus driver who I swear was my guardian, a guardian angel. And safeguarded that day for me, because I needed to be amongst people, but very much alone, to just let all of that out and start to process what was really happening in my life. And after hours of being on that bus. And now it's just me and the bus driver, like we're past, any people being on it's, you know, middle of the day or what have you. And he says, you know, it's time to get off the bus, we've got to make sure you're okay, though. And in that moment, what I did was, without realizing it, I let go. So I surrender. I literally said the words I surrender, for the first time in my life, like surrendering felt like I was giving up, and that I couldn't go on anymore, because I couldn't go on anymore in that moment. What I did not realize until after is that in the process of saying I surrender and releasing it, I actually allowed other forces to intervene. And that's when the magic started. I thought, That's it. I said, I surrender life's over, I'm a loser, it's I've given it all up, everything I've worked for is now going to fall apart, I will probably die in my apartment alone. And what I didn't realize is that when divine intervention kicks in, you stop wrestling with the problem yourself, and you let the other forces intervene on your behalf. And in that instant, I looked up, and there's a sign on the street that says community mental health center. So I'm like, I'm getting off here. I go inside. Oh, I know. It's like, I go outside, I sit down. And I don't even know what to do. I have a sister, a young, a young therapist and training. I couldn't even bring myself to call her to tell her what was happening. Remember, this is pre cellphones also. But like, it didn't occur to me to share that because I felt ashamed. I felt ashamed that here I was, I had been told my whole life, you're doing so well, you've done so well, you should be grateful that I felt angry with myself, I felt like I was letting everyone down. And I felt ashamed. So I sat there and waited, thinking of all the things I was going to tell the therapist that would walk out to meet with me of why this wasn't gonna work, why she probably couldn't help me and I probably just need some sleep. And you know, I think God has a sense of humor, because that person says, Hi, you know, she introduced herself and it was Renee. That's my first day. And I remember thinking, Oh, my God, I'm getting, she said, I'm an intern. And I'm like, an intern. I'm having a complete life crisis. And I'm getting a 50 something year old intern, like who I love.

Nicoa Coach: 34:06

That's gonna say, you're an overachiever. And you just got the intern, you're like, oh, you know, your

MICHELLE RIOS: 34:12

artwork is like going on here. And so I said, I'm thinking, I start with my schpeel, I don't think you can help. She's like, well, let's just sit and talk. Well, so here's the story. Renee used to be an AOL executive, oh, very long career in corporate who knew exactly all the things I was feeling who had had a very similar career, and who at Funny enough, my age now had decided to go down another road. That was her soul's calling. And so she's sitting there listening to my story, and I'm, you know, she's leveling the playing field, realizing like, I've got a wall up, and she's gonna have to convince me that I should tell her my story. And then she said, I have only one question. And I'm not gonna label, you know, we give you a lot of homework or anything to think about. I just have one question. And I don't even want you to answer it now. And I was like, one question. This is the lamest thing. I'm used to a lot of hard work. I need like, you know, I would like a complete workbook and I want the advanced version, because I want to get to the other end of this problem, and I want it to be solved, and I want it to be well again, and she said, Nope, you got one question. And that is, what do you really want?

Nicoa Coach: 35:30

Ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That is the question. That is the question for every single person listening. I'm so happy that you met Renee. Michelle, you just shared a story that I am sure, many, many, many, many people can relate to. And that that fear, uncertainty and doubt when you have been so ingrained in a habit of overachieving, it's frightening. And you're the luckiest girl in the world because you listened to the fear. And you sat with it enough to say, What? What the hell is this? You are the luckiest girl in the world, because most people press that shit deep down inside. And they just keep going. And I'm one of them. I went for it for a long, long time. It probably took me six, eight years to start the rat race, right? Well, I'm so proud of you.

MICHELLE RIOS: 36:28

Thank you. But let's let's let's call it, you know, call it what it was. I had this moment of awakening, which definitely saved my life that day, and turned me inward. And so then the hard work, but the big hand, it wasn't like a light switch. Right? It wasn't?

Nicoa Coach: 36:48

I'm sure because you still did it still played the game? You still did the American dream?

MICHELLE RIOS: 36:53

Yeah, well, I think I am. And I had to, I had to maneuver with a new insight that was not at that moment in time while received you know, I was I always say I was ahead of my game. I was perfect for now that then awakenings that have happened in this space pandemic environment where everybody's much more let's talk, let's be open work is a very different place. Corporate America is much kinder softer place and even with its all of its flaws, let's be honest, corporate America's people. It's a collection of people. And so into the day, the more healed group of people is the different, the better the experience is going to be. And I think,

Nicoa Coach: 37:34

Well, how did you sustain that knowing and still play the game so well,

MICHELLE RIOS: 37:39

because a lot, I had a lot of modalities and tools then because I being the overachiever went deep on personal development, like I spent 20 years then really just getting sharpening the axe to be ready for this next stage. So you know, I don't do anything halfway, apparently. Apparently, I came out of that discussion. And it was really funny because, you know, I have a sister who's a therapist, I'm a firm believer that it is a an incredibly important tool and having someone to talk to is important. And I know a lot of people have had a lot of wonderful breakthroughs. As a result, Rene and I had a very short lived relationship, because very quickly, then I was like, Okay, what are the tools? What are the modalities, which should be asking myself questions, and she's just looking at me going, Are you training to become a therapist? And I was like, no, no, but I'm going all in like, I want have a good life. I did not come all this way. I did not go through all the struggles have not gone through all the sacrifices, I have not traveled the world, and done all the, you know, introspection, to just go through this on autopilot. And I'm going to build the life I love. And it was a very conscious decision for me to know that I was probably going to be swimming upstream. And there were a lot of other breakthroughs. It's not like I think you have one, and then you're done. Right? That was one next level. For me, that was an incredibly important one that pointed me inward. After 26 years of everything being externally driven, all my self worth was tied to winning, external achievement, grades, scholarships, promotions, job opportunities.

Nicoa Coach: 39:25

All How did you parse that out, though, Michelle, because when you get the question at 26, what do you really want? You know, how do you carve away there? Well, I want to be the best PR person ever and get a master's degree and, and be top of the class? How did you separate that? Or did you?

MICHELLE RIOS: 39:44

It was interesting. Well, the first thing was, I said, I don't know how to answer that question, which really made me angry, right? Because I wasn't really good student. I was like, How do I not know this? No one's ever asked me and I've never thought about it felt indulgent.

Nicoa Coach: 40:00

If, you know, let's sit there for a minute, because that is a very common response from my clients today, and I'm sure some of your own they're like, What do you mean, what do I want? And I'm like, I'm talking about simply, you finish work. If at 630? Then what do you want? They're like, I don't know, dinner. I'm like, none of them. Okay, but what do you really want to feel like how do you want to be what do you want your life to be? And they do not know how to parse that out. So I can imagine that 26 years, I wouldn't know what that

MICHELLE RIOS: 40:30

I would say, no joke. I would sit in my apartment with a notebook and a pen. I would turn on the music when I get home from work or school. And I would give myself two to three hours to start going through and envisioning of life. That felt good to me. Soul. And that was the most healing journey I went on, I allowed myself to come home. Take time for me to envision what I wanted it to look like. And here's the thing, what

Nicoa Coach: 41:05

surprised you what surprised you when you did that?

MICHELLE RIOS: 41:10

I think the fact that I wasn't living at all at the moment, like none of the things that I was actually experiencing popped up in the this looks like my ideal life. It was shades of it, right? Like I was blessed to travel through Rotary. And through college, I did junior year abroad in Spain, I did a rotary ambassadorial year in Barcelona. That and through my work, I did global work. So I started to really travel a lot for work. But I knew I wanted to travel as a lifestyle, I knew that travel for me, to be to be honest with you, allowed me to be somebody else, allowed me to assure of who I was and how I was walking in the world and put it on a shelf. Because I was this Michelle, the traveler, Michelle on vacation. And I met people I opened up I didn't carry the heaviness of who I was. And all of the shame worthiness deserving this all great had to be grateful, I just was allowed myself to be when I would go to these other countries. I didn't have the backstory, and it created space for me to say, so who do you want to be next? Or who are you becoming? It's probably the best thing.

Nicoa Coach: 42:35

Yeah. Well, how did you let that? How did you set all of that down? Because what you're talking about is what we're brainwashed to believe. And then we don't even realize we're being brainwashed, you know, with this set of identities. You know, I asked a question to every client, you know, what percentage of your life that you're living is your own? versus, you know, your rabbi, your priests, your dad, your mom, your neighbor, you know, marketing campaigns, you know, what? Yeah. Did you merge that? Or are you still working on it?

MICHELLE RIOS: 43:10

No, I, I am loving my life right now. Because everything I am currently involved in is a choice I've made with a lot of thoughtfulness and, look, the life I'm living right now is the life that I painted for myself at 2627 28. And 3233. There were the visions I had for how I wanted to show up in the world. It took some time for it to evolve into place and come into being, but it's so worth it, like, you know, oh, yeah, the dreams that you have don't come to fruition immediately. It takes time for them to grow and percolate. So I can definitively tell you that the visioning exercises, all the visualization that I did, as a young 30 Something is how I'm living now now was I think I'd be a host of a podcast or sitting with you in this format now, but I can tell you, I was saying things like, I want to be on stages, and in conversations where people talk about personal transformation and development. I read a book that changed my life because I never thought of things the way he had put them in writing for the first time. And that was a Wayne Dyer book called. You'll see it now you'll believe it. Now. You'll see it when you believe it.

Nicoa Coach: 44:36

You'll see it when you believe it. It's the opposite of what people typically say. Yeah.

MICHELLE RIOS: 44:40

Which I just remember thinking they got the title wrong. And that's so silly. And and I would be in the bookstore, you know, in that section on personal development and self help. Oh, I haven't you like consuming Wayne Dyer books and Deepak Chopra in the early days, right? Before they were, who they were, who they became. And it really created this whole new paradigm for me of like, Is this possible? Like, have I been living in this bubble? And I just need to step out of this bubble and life can be different. And, you know, I started to get brave enough that I was like, Well, look, I'm paying myself here. Who's watching right? This is now in my court. I never really thought that way. And I think a little bit its birth order. You know, my siblings don't have the same sense of I would call home at 2627 20 and report back to like headquarters of like, what I was doing, what is achieving, looking for that satisfaction, fulfillment of them saying you're doing well because Oh, yes, I didn't feel it myself because I had Got a sense of self yet? So

Nicoa Coach: 45:51

that's exactly right, right? I mean, I think it's amazing that you said that birth order book, if anybody hasn't read that book yet, it's a great book to help you understand a little bit more about what your personality and your tendencies are. A firstborn is typically either the overachiever or the rebel. Right? So calling back home, what the whole time you're talking, I'm thinking about that relationship with the family. Right? Yeah. And can you share how that evolved? I mean, I remember after I quit my job, and I was trying to recreate, you know, a 20 year careers income within a year on my own as a coach, which was not realistic. I called my father once burst into tears. And I said, Can you just tell me, I've done enough? I was like, tell me, it's enough. I'm exhausted. I'm overwhelmed. I'm tired. And his response in good father form was, well, Darla, nah, that sounds like that's only something you can answer. Which interesting, veiled response. Right, right. I was like, Oh, shit. For me, do not help me. Dad, I love you, you know, but that didn't really help me. But but he was actually profoundly Correct.

MICHELLE RIOS: 47:12

Yeah, he really is. But look, I will tell you, it took me having children, to really understand how much my parents really weren't doing the best they could. You know, there was a lot of resentment. I'm not gonna lie, I felt tremendous resentment, because I felt like a lot of the things that happened, the choices I made, were not my own. And the reality is, that's not true. Ultimately, I made the choices I made. The problem was I had no sense of autonomy while making any of them in the early days. And then you've got to find the courage once you realize that to say, Ha, what would I have done differently? And what am I going to do now? That was a little trickier. And I started to feel a lot more forgiveness because under the surface, I was angry. I was angry that I was first I was angry that I had to be me. I was angry, that it wasn't easier at times. I was angry, you know, a lot of anger. And then yeah, it took watching my parents age, partly, and my, in a recognition that they were profoundly proud of me. And then the only person that wasn't, was me. Yeah, he wasn't proud of me, because I never developed a keen sense of self until I really got into my 30s until I became a mother until I struggled as a young mother. And I may say young, I was considered a geriatric pregnancy at 35. From my remember when

Nicoa Coach: 48:53

they said that, hey, do your geriatric age and I was like, what, my

MICHELLE RIOS: 49:01

honor because what let's be honest, when you start off with so much intensity in life, those are not warm, fuzzy childhoods, those are, I had moments of happiness I played in the woods, we didn't have the games and the electronics and the entertainment we have today. Growing up and probably similar environments don't are small towns, mostly woods, and I grew up with water. So I was out playing in the woods. And that was a huge part of my upbringing. And I'm so grateful for it because it recognized the importance of nature and my calming the nervous system. I didn't have that for large tracts of my life because I came to the city and I live in a city and I did not get out into nature as often as I should have. I now live in the suburbs, there's more trees, it's more wooded, it's just there's a lot more opportunity for doing that. Part of my healing process was really looking at the dynamic with my parents and letting it go and say they love me and their way they wanted what was best for me and their mind it from their perspective. And we all have blind spots. You know, I wish they would have protected me more as a young person. I wish they would have said your don't need to try so hard. It is okay to fail. You know, that was never a concept that I read that I was allowed to have as part of my thinking right? And a lot of us didn't back then. And now you know, the joke is fail, fail often fail quick, fail fast and stay Great. That's how you become good at something. And so I spend a lot of time in this what I called striving for stability and security zone and there's nothing wrong Like, never knowing who you are, when you don't allow yourself to be fully expressed, because you're trying to maintain this sense of stability and security and safety, because you didn't have it. And so you crave it deeply. But it's a very plain vanilla way to live. And so it took, like, you know, I've been very fortunate things that have happened to me, my husband's from a foreign country, his different cultures from Peru, we have I speak fluent Spanish, I happen to have done that already. So, you know, the running joke is Michelle went through all of these Foreign Studies and traveled so that she could marry Percy, and maybe, who knows. But we definitely have different ways of approaching things. I was on my own, that 17 going to college, I was on my own moved far away from my family. He was 28 when I met him, and he's still living near his parents, you know, within a one block radius. And so that Latin community in a very different approach to how children where they go, and when they go and all that versus the Americans, you know, what do we do you turn 18 You're out you go. Good luck, you know. And I prided myself on that being the approach. I was like, Oh, we like we're such harder workers. And we're Icart achievers can tell you my husband's like a marathoner, right. Like, he's like, Yeah, okay, how'd that go for you? That work, and he's I didn't have a career like crazy as I can be crazy, but we balance each other out. And that meaning him put a lot of I always joke, but it's true. It was like a wrench in the wheel for me, and I get so frustrated, because we're so different. And I was like, this is gonna work. And we're so different. And I was like, go, go, go. And he was always like, take a breath. Think about it, relax, have fun, lean into joy. You know, and I feel like he's wrong with this person. Disney wonders, like toil nonstop for six days, and we rest on the Sabbath, right? We rest on Sundays. They do. I'll do that's what happens when you're trying to achieve big things. And it has been coming together of these two different cultures in two different ways of being have really brought us both to the middle, where he brought out the best in me and things that I didn't even know that I needed to allow, he gave me the safety of being with someone who had my back. So after years, and years and years of sent hearing, there's a safety net, which I don't even know what that really means. Like, you know, like, my parents would have taken me and if I didn't have a place to live, probably not the case. But that was like this lingo in my head. And I would walk through life, I don't have a safety now. So I had to get the next job. And I was making more than my father made. By the time I was like, 26 years old. And I was still with those old programs running Yeah, spends, like, you're not alone. If a child together, you've never not worked. I still work. I've never not worked. But he said this concept of no safety net doesn't make sense. So just put that aside, because whatever it means in your mind isn't real. You can explore you can become you can be you're not allowing yourself the breathing space. So Godsend and giving me him at the same time, I was the one that said you know, would be what are we creating? What are we doing? What do we want? Right? What are we creating?

Nicoa Coach: 54:31

I don't want to is this? Are you a mirror like just a mirror? I love this so much, because I can see you? Because I see me, right? Is that safety, you know, people listening? The reason you haven't necessarily for those of you who are still pondering, giving, taking the blinders off and saying, wait a minute, you mean I could do something different? It's probably because of some deep rooted fear, uncertainty or doubt or safety concern. And I even heard something the other day. So it was stop using that self talk of I am safe, I am safe. And I've been telling my clients to say that all you know, for 15 years, start saying you are safe. Because you're not talking to the you that's grown up and is the adult today you're talking to that young girl that got brainwashed and believed everything she thought. Exactly. That's it. Yeah, it saved her and tell her she's safe and we're grown up now. Then we can go ahead and give ourselves permission to explore and expand like you're currently doing. Yeah.

MICHELLE RIOS: 55:37

And so it's an evolution, right. I think if people are allowing it, they allow themselves the opportunity to realize you don't have to have it all fit You're down. And I think that's probably the biggest problem that a lot of us who suffer from over achievement syndromes that we think that once we identify a problem, then our task is to quickly assess it and figure it out so we can move on to the next level. And that's not how life works, right? Life is a really about becoming, it's an evolution, I would say, I don't really even like the word reinvention. I know a lot of people use it, and I like the sexiness of reinvention. But I always say, I do not reinvent myself. But at each stage of my life, I have evolved into a new part of me, I have shed old skins, and I've grown forward. And so it's been this evolution over time. And there were years in the deep metal with the pre K and the toddler years and traveling on on the road. I know, you know what I'm talking about. I build them in China this week, and I'm going to Chile, and then I'm going to be in Turkey. And then I've got to go do this for work. And I'm all over the map. And I felt like I wasn't doing anything really well, because it was hard to be present for anything. And the reality is, everyone knows, okay, my toddler was perfectly fine and healthy and is better off because I did spend time quality time when I was with him. But there was time when he didn't have me. And he could miss me and that's okay. That's okay. That's okay. And he's a great level headed kid. And, you know, there were times in my job where it was boring. We were going through odd things. It wasn't always exciting and riveting. And every minute, there were times where, you know, companies I was part of were going through a reassessment of what they wanted to be, you know, the advertising agency needed to go through a rebirth. And, you know, public relations was at the forefront, and that causes churn and turnover. And so there's always times where challenges and adversity with was all around. Here's the difference. At that moment of turning going through that 26 year old quarterlife crisis experience for me is, I had started to understand the importance of going inward, and it didn't get presented to me as woowoo or I go meditate, it was simply a retract, assess, and then respond, don't come at everything reactive my whole life. Before that I reacted to everything in a sense of, I gotta control it, I've got to control it, things are gonna get a good troll, and I've got to control my environment, that was me up until 26. And then I sort of go into this period of like, I don't need to control it, I need to know how to respond and navigate. And so that's a large part of my career, respond and navigate, you know, Bob, and we've, like, we've evolved a lot of my career doing that, right. And becoming much more conscious of the power of my mind, and the power of my thoughts, and the power of my beliefs. How much power did my beliefs on how the world worked shaped my early part of my life? I mean, it nearly ended it?

Nicoa Coach: 59:07

Yes. And what are what are some of the assumptions and beliefs that you live under now, that you would say are completely different from the beginning assumptions? And

MICHELLE RIOS: 59:19

so many, like probably one of the biggest is scarcity assumption, I assume that if I had something, somebody else didn't have it, that there was only a limited amount of everything, right? resources are limited, like, how much did you hear like money is limited, money doesn't grow on trees, there's not enough we don't, we can't afford it, all of these things. And so I continued, well, into a point where I could afford things saying, money doesn't grow on trees, you can't afford it, turn off the lights, like the pie, just get to do but um, you know, all the things. And then I would, I had sat down with a financial advisor, who's a good friend today, who finally said, Oh, my God, you're the most frugal executive I have ever met in my life, to a flipping vacation. And I don't mean to mean, where you hang out, parents, get on a plane and go to the places that you love. Because when we became a family, I then started to think about how things were growing up in my family. And I said, I don't want to go through this same experience. I don't want my son to experience that same pain of financial constraint. So I'm going to make sure we are smart and responsible and build nest eggs and you know, invest in things and so I would do things that I thought you know, it'd be fun for a little kid Edie but not necessarily the things that adults needed. And when he was probably kindergarten, that was when I finally was like, Are you sure we're really sure we're going to be if I do this, and

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:01

you're always sure,

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:01:03

it's your time, and we went on our first family vacation, and then didn't look back like real vacation. Not, you know, and I say this with all the love in the world. I love going home domaine. I love going to Florida to visit families there. But we would stay with families, you know that you never get a good night's sleep on anyone else's bed. And you know, it's you're, you're on someone else's schedule. And so it's really hard to really be off and some people are still working. In this case, we were taking off the map and saying where in the world do we want to explore? We were allowing our souls to guide us. And we did extraordinary

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:43

it was the ordinary life. You just got back from where were you? Italy, Paris? Where were you? We were

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:01:49

in France for two weeks. Yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:51

So beautiful. Yeah, it was saying people have to start quiet. So, you know, we, as I always say, we could talk all afternoon. So, so many gyms, Michelle, and such a vulnerable story, please know how grateful I am that you've shared it for our listeners and for me, and, you know, the overachiever in me sees the overachiever in you. I love you so much.

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:02:21

You know, it's it doesn't ever really go away. 100% it's something you work on forever, right? Like, and I think that's important for people to know, to give themselves grace, because even in this next stage, where I remind myself, that part of the living your extraordinary life process is allowing your soul to guide you. And that is tough. We live in a world with realities and deadlines and all of these things. And it's sometimes my mind has likes to have the, you know, negotiating seat at the table. And we have to relegate it to the corner. Like, you don't get to have the final detail on things anymore,

Nicoa Coach: 1:03:03

though, you know, learning how to answer the question, you know, based on what you've just shared, going in, we're learning the tools, making sure that as a 26 year old, you began to recognize that this is very literal process, and people don't understand it. So it's actually a very literal practice to go inward. And it's, it's very easy if you quit making it so woowoo. And weird. It's not about your identity. It's a literal practice of conscious awareness that enables you to tap in to the ability to answer the question, What does my soul really want? And what is the reality

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:03:45

is, that's all that matters, because you have to decide. And I think this is the fundamental question for your listeners. If you believe that we live in a universe, that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and you are a participant observer, you signed up for this, that part of being human means we are going to go through a bunch of stuff, we're gonna be given the option to have highs and lows, and valleys and all of these things. And that is actually what you paid for. You want all of that. And so now a very different vantage point in life. Many years later, literally twice as old as I was at that moment I shared with you, I'm 26 years older, I get to recognize that I signed up for this. And so I want to be able to mount that I want to have adversity every week. Some weeks are nice to be quiet, but I welcome it, bring it on. This is part of the salutely rants of being human and I get to know how alive I am. And remind myself that the truest part of me is the spirit. And if the Spirit doesn't have a say in what I say the soul is at the forefront of it forefront of everything. I've missed the point, but allow these things that may seem negative or though you've judged them as bad. All of these things that happen, whatever they are the losses, the job losses, the divorces, the careers that didn't work out there happening for you, not to you and you have signed up for this. So buckle up, you know, enjoy the ride. This is why now I get to sit back and say lean into joy expecially in the hard times to remind yourself you are a spiritual being having a human experience you signed up for this. You deserve to enjoy even in the hardest of times that we go through.

Nicoa Coach: 1:05:46

Amen. If you are speaking my language it, you're right. It's just kind of a remembering your wholeness. And that if you live under that assumption that you're just here to have an experience, it's all energy in every emotion, energy in motion is valid. And it you said a key word you get to, you get to this is what you paid for this is the ticket. Amen, sister I mean, we really are. Yeah, so many things we overlap. And I, I forgot that we were both ambassadorial scholars, I love that the Rotary Club, I'm gonna put the link in there, because people don't recognize that that's one of the most powerful resources out there. They're beautiful organization,

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:06:32

amazing organization. And, you know, talk about like that one experience, you know, you decide whether or not you want to share this. But I asked, of course, if this happened for you, I was not the most qualified person, when you looked at like everybody going in there. I was competing from a very impoverished state at the time is the early 90s. I was competing from Maine, and Quebec, Quebec, and Maine got together because they didn't have enough money individually. So they got together. So that meant we had students coming from Quebec. We had and they weren't really students anymore, right? We were in some level of graduate study. Alright, that's right. Yeah. And me, there were over 60 or 70 people that made the second round, right, you put in your written application, and then you're invited to a networking and interview process. And I was the youngest kid there. Every I was 23 years old, everyone else 28. A lot of them were medical residents that wanted to at the time go, and to an African country or to Asia to fight disease, which was an important mission. If you remember the polio Plus program, yeah. So many other things that they helped solve for. And so I was meeting these incredibly accomplished smart, cool people. And I remember thinking, I'm so proud that I made it here. Like, I am so excited to be in this elevated room of really talented, brilliant people, but I remember going to my parents who accompanied me to the interview, there is no way this is gonna be in my favor, because I'm gonna I'm gonna go to business school and Spain. I'm not entirely sure that that's going to trump I want to find a cure for AIDS in Africa. It just doesn't feel like I'm gonna give it my all and I love it. But like, I do not feel bad. If I don't get the soup. It's not meant for me, it is not meant for me. And that's when you start to really, for me, I recognize the importance of being energetically aligned for something because it's so meant for me,

Nicoa Coach: 1:08:50

I did and you had let go of it up front, you had let go of the attachment to getting it.

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:08:55

I was standing wax going into that interview. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:08:58

that's key. Let me tell you gotta be like, I want this or something even better. If this works out great. If not, no big,

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:09:06

proud to be part of that group. I was like, these people are so flipping impressive. And I am still a bit lost, right? Like I was ds. This was before even at my big crisis talk about I know. But it's all about being aligned. And I walked in, and I just kind of knew I might God, I'm like, we're vibing here. These people. Yeah, by we get each other.

Nicoa Coach: 1:09:35

I remember that interview. And there was like five white Anglo Saxon Protestant males sitting on the other side of a big long, like six foot table. And then me. And the one of the guys was, he says, Well, let me ask you a question about, you know, interstate 40, up here just opened up between Wilmington and Raleigh. And what do you think about billboards being put up along each side of the highway? He's like, What do you think you think that's a good idea or not? Or you know, and I answered and said, Well, I guess it depends, you know, depends on what they look like and how big they are. Is it something that's going to be invasive of the landscape or not? And then he said, Well, why don't you ask? And he points to the guy next to him what he thinks because he runs the advertising agency that puts the billboards up. And I don't actually remember what I said, because I realized I had been set up. But whatever I said, was diplomatic enough. And I think it was that answer. I said something like, Well, I'm sure that you would collaborate with the farmers and the people along the highways to do the right thing or something and they loved thinking crap. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I winged it, and they needed somebody If you could talk on their feet

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:10:53

well, you know what happened with mine. There were two judges on the panel that were from Quebec. So what did I do? Three weeks before the interview, I was thinking I was in my apartment but thinking I'm like, I'm going to sign up for a USDA intensive French course my friends,

Nicoa Coach: 1:11:09

I knew you were gonna say their job.

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:11:12

And I was like, I have two people. I'm supposed to represent Quebec. They speak French and Quebec. I don't know, I don't know how to speak French. I learned French in three weeks. No Kiran, insane. And I was like, UX can make a difference. I walked in, I spoke as much French as I could as proficiently as I could, and the guy's eyes, you know, just like us, you know, she did enough of her homework to care that she's representing her state of Maine and Quebec. I bet you nobody else did that.

Nicoa Coach: 1:11:45

I bet they didn't. And you know, that's a really good takeaway as well, that we need to remind people, you want something different in your life, and we're not talking about a dot adopting our trauma driven overachiever illness. We're talking about three times fast. Right? We're talking about what do you want? How willing are you to do something to get what you want? And that requires you to do what you've said earlier, Michelle, so eloquently is about stepping back. And looking at it from a bigger picture. And then going inward and listening to that voice that says, Well, you spoke French that might help. Right? And you're like, oh, yeah, listen to that little whisper that would help you differentiate yourself to get you what you want. And that's worth the effort. I think a lot of clients and you know, a lot of kids today, they get tired, and they don't want the adversity, they don't want the pain point. And they don't want the effort

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:12:47

to create an application. But you just said something that's really important. And I don't think we do enough of this. And I'm trying to get better at doing it because it's served me so well, in very important parts of my life, which is step back. We tend to press forward. When we're faced with something we want or something we want to achieve or something we want to do we press forward, we stick to it, we we want to get deeper in it. Sometimes the answer isn't the stepping back, because you can see the forest through the trees much better, and you make better decisions. Sometimes, instead of staying up late, you need to go to bed early, right? Like we tell this, it's the same. It's the same process when you want something so badly. But you start to lose sight. And so you need to step back to see that bigger picture again, and to recognize you might be missing something.

Nicoa Coach: 1:13:42

Yes, that's right. I mean, the beauty of letting go, the stepping back is letting go to the extent of you're not going to strive today, towards the result, you're going to thrive. Let me go and take a walk. Let me get back to nature, like you said, I mean, when you said that about being in the city and being in DC, and my mother used to tell me when I would get stressed out at work, and I'd call her to cry or complain. She'd say just do you have a window? And I fortunately I did. It's a big accomplishment for me to get a window. And she said, turn to the window. Look, is there a tree? I'm like, Yes, ma'am. Look at the tree. Just stare at nature. And so if that's helpful to people, if you're not sure which way to go and your life by design or your you're in the midst of striving, then Michelle, and I would like you to take a deep breath, step back, relax, and allow the universe to show you. You don't even have to figure it out. Sometimes it'll get handed to you. And it'll be so much easier, relaxing, going inward and go to the Self Help section. I mean, if you and I aren't examples, I mean, you. You figured it out 26 years ago, I only figured it out about 15 years ago. So it is an evolution. It's a remembering of our wholeness. You're a beautiful example of that. And I'm really honored that you shared your story with us today, Michelle?

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:15:03

Oh, I'm so grateful to be able to come on and be with you and be with your audience. So at the pleasure is online.

Nicoa Coach: 1:15:11

The question I always ask my clients at the end of every coaching session, I'd like to ask you, which is what do you want to celebrate the most about your life by design at this stage?

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:15:24

That I am very content with who I am. I don't have to do anything. I am inherently worthy in my being Ness. Not in my doing. Yes.

Nicoa Coach: 1:15:40

I celebrate that to a life by design is not about the outcomes it is about how do you want to feel? And how do you want Be in beingness, right? Everybody write that down. Being this you're embodying it for us. And you're, you know, I love that you're role modeling it. And I highly recommend everybody go and listen to your podcast. Live your extraordinary life podcast, right? Oh, I wanted to tell you, I forgot to tell you. Do you know? That a while back, I bought the domain. I live extraordinary.com

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:16:16

Oh, my goodness. You are kidding me.

Nicoa Coach: 1:16:18

I own that. So you know, I'm taking I'm taking offers I'm taking offers. I haven't used it. I mean, I've got it until 2025. So you can message me later. We'll talk we'll make a deal. You love it. Thank you, my friend. I love you.

MICHELLE RIOS: 1:16:35

I love you. Have a great day.

Jennifer Gardner: 1:16:40

Thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with Nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with Nicoa and check out our website Coffee with nicoa.com and that's Nicoa N IC O A. We look forward to talking with you soon. And enjoy your coffee between now and then.