S2 EP20: JENNA PACELLI

Nicoa speaks with trauma-informed healer JENNA PACELLI about somatic experiencing, self-awareness, her intense training and learning to connect with herself after the death of a partner and a traumatic accident at a young age. They tap into the topics of self-observation and curiosity in a healing trauma as well as profound spirituality insights around suffering that enables us all to create a LIFE BY DESIGN!

You know we have to first share Jenna's reference to Bryr Clogs !! (NOT Clogging! LOL)

CONNECT WITH JENNA here

SE : SOMATIC EXPERIENCING: https://traumahealing.org/
PETER LEVINE's WORK

THE ART OF POSSIBILITY by Ben Zander

Paul Selig's Channeled Works here

Buy your copy of YOUR LIFE BY DESIGN: A Coffee With Nicoa Self-Care Coaching Journal
on Amazon today! 

Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:01

Grab your coffee and join me Nicoa For a caffeinated conversation about life I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths and just like me are creating a life by design. I hope that will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. I know it told me that okay, we don't want to do that. I love that we're already recording to this is amazing. Okay, guys, we're like on the phone because something weird happened with my computer. So here we go. Oh, and it says I'm like 99% uploaded. Oh, yeah, that Joe. Oh, wonder who I'm talking to Jennifer Celli. Okay, take 9421 Yes, I'm ready. Jenna. Are you ready?

JENNA PACELLI: 0:54

Great. I'm ready. Okay, good.

Nicoa Coach: 0:56

This is no longer relevant. Okay, looks like

JENNA PACELLI: 1:01

everything's changing. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:03

everything's changing. And so everybody I'm gonna do the quick intro because I do not want to waste one more minute of Jen is amazing. You know, time that she's given us. This is very generous of her. She has a very big life and I want to tell you who she is now. She did send me a very blah, blah, Jenna psychotherapist, blah, blah, intro and bio. And I was like, no, no, no. Of course. Everyone knows I stalk my guests. And here is the introduction I would like to share with everybody. Jenna is a clog and dog obsessed, essential oil loving, somatic psychotherapist, trauma informed yoga teacher, wellness, entrepreneur, and neuroscience aficionado. Oh, and outdoor enthusiast. She's helping all of us find freedom from stress and trauma. Did that summarize you? Well? Yeah,

JENNA PACELLI: 1:57

yes, yes. i Yes, it is. It does. I'm like I wrote that so long ago. It's like, I tend to forget it's there. And also, yes, I still love all those things. And you know, I've sprained my ankle enough that I just I don't really wear clogs so much anymore. Okay, so

Nicoa Coach: 2:15

actually a minute ago when I was joking about the clogging, when you said clogs, it still had not occurred to me that you just meant clogs that you were likes clogged. Yes.

JENNA PACELLI: 2:25

Yes. clogs, clogs, because there's this kind of love this, this company called Briar, Briar clogs. They're in San Francisco. They're an all women owned. very inclusive company. They can make these clogs. I'm obsessed. And I have been obsessed with their with their clogs. And yeah, they're just these like gorgeous things. I really love fashion. I really love Yeah, art. I really love culture, and theater and music. And so I think it's just sort of a little nod to some of that. But yes, I

Nicoa Coach: 3:01

I think it's funny because I'm from the south. And when you say clog, I'm like, clogging she clog.

JENNA PACELLI: 3:09

clog, like logging. No,

Nicoa Coach: 3:11

like clogging. Like, it's a town like dance. Oh, yeah. Now, this is just a

JENNA PACELLI: 3:21

culture, isn't it? Yeah, it's kind of a big in San Francisco. It's like a, you know, actually, for the figure. I went to grad school there. And I

Nicoa Coach: 3:29

saw that. Yeah. So you have this really interesting background. And I want you to tell all of your story. But let's just start just for our listeners, by sharing a little bit about what's been going on in your world right now. Because you have a big following. And you've been doing a lot of great work, a lot of stuff about being you know, the adult daughter of a narcissistic mother and all that type of healing. Why don't you tell us what what's going on for you in your world right now?

JENNA PACELLI: 3:55

Yeah. Well, I currently live in Bend Oregon, which if you're familiar, it's like it's on the other side of the Cascades from Portland. So we get sunny weather, it's it but it snows it's the high desert and it's absolutely gorgeous. I live two blocks from a river. Like I just I have to be by water and I have a you know, a a business that is my baby, you know, I've got a private practice where I see folks one on one and I do group work and I am producing more and more online content to support a wider or larger number of people, you know, especially just that, you know, make this work accessible, whether it's my substack articles, it's you know, you can get read a lot of those for free or you could pay$8 A month like which is you know, in San Francisco that's like a latte and a half. Exactly.

Nicoa Coach: 4:55

Right. I looked at some of your, you've done really great work and you do speaking engagements. And, you know, I really think that the embodiment work that you're doing is very powerful. I'm a somatic coach as well and, and have not as much history or background as you do. But that is getting the person to stop being a talking head and getting them into their body. I mean, you're doing some embodiment workshops. Is that right? Yeah,

JENNA PACELLI: 5:24

yeah. So I have, I have my, my substack that I write weekly, with nervous system practices in there, then I also have like a weekly ish, two hour workshop on for the adult children of narcissistic and emotionally mature parents, I keep it really affordable. So lots of people can attend. And, and then and then I have a longer six month group that people can work with me. And and that's really, really, that's been a really cool process to, you know, continue to evolve that group. And then I've got really pretty intensive one on one work. That's kind of where I'm at. It's like, people have to be really ready to step into the one on one work with me. Oh, I'm

Nicoa Coach: 6:05

sure the willingness piece is pretty critical. When someone really is ready to get over those blocks that have been holding them back or causing them traumatic reactions and triggers in their life. You have to be really ready. And you might complain about it. One of the things that find you may find this tool that can help you determine if someone's ready, is how much time they spend arguing for their limitations. Yeah, right. Yeah. Totally terrified. Totally. Right. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But you didn't come to this overnight, assuming no couple of questions come to mind. I don't know if you would talk about it. But are you an adult daughter of a narcissistic mother? And do you want to talk about that? And how or how did your journey get you here?

JENNA PACELLI: 6:51

Yeah. Well, I've learned a lot through my family system. And I've learned a lot through helping other people navigate these, these dynamics. And I have learned and then I have specialty training on narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder. I'm trained at the master level, and Narm, which is neuro effective relational model. And that's a an advanced, I would say, like relational developmental trauma training. And then of course, somatic experiencing, which is my deep, deep love and so much love and respect to Peter Levine and my mentors Abby Blakeslee, and machine Hager. They were just incredible faculty for the SE Institute. And so I've, you know, I've kind of I've put all this stuff together, I've really woven 15 years plus, of professional experience, but also your personal experience with these kinds of family structures and how debilitating it can be to not get your needs met. Yeah. Growing up, yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 8:03

So what was that pivotal experience for you that put you down this path of research and training? And how did your own self work? Support this interest?

JENNA PACELLI: 8:19

Yeah, so, um, a lot changed when I so I was, when I was younger, I was, well, okay, there's a number of things here. Because I, when I was really little, I would look at my hands in the only place that I had privacy, which was in the bathroom. And I would look at my little hands, like, even if I wasn't busy in there, I'll just sit in there and like, like, look at my little hands. And I'm looking at my hand now. And just imagining my hand is probably the size of my Paul, you know, I'm looking at my hands and thinking like, this is weird, like, how did I get into this body at this time at this place? And this family? And I knew, and it wasn't a cognitive thought it was a visceral fear of I could be I knew I could be an elephant. So in these two specific things that come up frequently, like an elephant somewhere, Yeah, or like a little boy in Africa. Well, like I knew I was not this body, and I was probably 345. And then it sort of went away. Hmm. So I, you know, because the ego comes in and we write, we like that. Yeah, and we forget where we came from. Right. And so I think we have to really go back to that which was like, I was feeling stuff that I think a lot of people weren't feeling sure and had an awareness of things and I didn't have the word reincarnation, obviously at for her to describe what I was experiencing, but it was that and I had other experiences, sort of being able to tap into other realms. ohms and yeah, awarenesses and consciousness and like, I didn't again, didn't just didn't have the words, it was just a, again, just a visceral, bodily feeling and awareness. So I think I've always had a penchant for healing. And when I've worked with intuitives, and things like that, they're like, yeah, you've been doing this not just in this life, like you've been? Yeah, you've been a healer and other other lives in your first right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not my first rodeo, you know? So yes, I have all this trading. And I was I had a really unconventional you know, with a decade of my 20s, and half of my 30s is not is not your average 20 year old I was, you know, initially and then, you know, some awful things happened, and I just changed. And I, I rearranged everything, and I spent the, you know, 20s and 30s, just studying and training myself, and I'm trying to understand what had happened. And so, yeah, I, you know, I have an inordinate amount. And I'll just be honest, like, an inordinate amount of training that most people at my age and level, don't have, because it was a way for me to, in a little bit of escape, like it was a and trying to find myself. Yeah. So to answer your question about, like, what is my path, I see myself in many ways as, at least at this point, as a vessel for people's healing, as something, you know, as a leader, as you know, I believe people heal themselves, but I'm really there to help guide them. You know, there's a specific thing that needs to happen in trauma treatment that, you know, people need guidance on. But like, I think that, you know, I'm here and I'm also I know that I am so temporary. Yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 12:06

How did you? How did you grab that grief? And how did you get into your body? What was the practice that you think really woke you back up to live your full expanding life?

JENNA PACELLI: 12:23

Somatic Experiencing, over a number of years, helped me get into my body and prepare me for sort of reconnecting with him.

Nicoa Coach: 12:40

So what is somatic experiencing for our listeners? What does that

JENNA PACELLI: 12:43

mean? Yes, right. Somatic Experiencing is a very specific trauma treatment modality created by Peter Levine that is based on neuroscience and animal models and medical biophysics. And the way that the nervous system carries stress and trauma, so I was deeply traumatized by his death. And then with an immense amount of developmental trauma, that makes you extremely susceptible to developing PTSD symptoms. So I definitely, you know, look back on myself and like, definitely had PTSD, and complex PTSD. And I kept putting one foot in front of the other trying to learn how to figure this out and eventually came, went to graduate school found Somatic Experiencing found my mentor, and started to learn to get in my body. And that built the capacity for me to stay with the experience. Like there's so much about his past as crossing over that I avoided because it was so painful, that I just couldn't do it for a long, long, long

Nicoa Coach: 14:31

time. Yeah, you had to protect yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

JENNA PACELLI: 14:34

Yeah. Like I didn't have the capacity of my nervous system. Right. And

Nicoa Coach: 14:38

so what is an example of a somatic experiencing practice? Just to give people some insight as to what that might look like?

JENNA PACELLI: 14:48

Yeah, the main, I would say the main if we boil it down, the main practice of SE is to track sensation. So interoception, which, you know, occupational therapists have been talking about interoception for years, so well, to just, you know, acknowledge them and their field like, yeah, and the wisdom there and they've, you know, they've been talking the Buddha was talking about interoception 2500 years ago, in the Vipassana meditation approach that he that he taught, or technique and so, it's the process again of tracking sensation, and then not tracking sensation. But there's a lot of other things like images, movements, the body wants to make emotions and thoughts as well. And then not and this is the critical part not trying to override that with coping mechanisms, desensitization also sorts of things breathwork. Like there's, there's a place of needing the nervous system to, like, we have to help it complete, whatever it is the thing that they needed to complete, complete,

Nicoa Coach: 16:02

right? You're stuck in the cellular makeup of your body, right? So that's right. Yeah. So if you're going to be upset, don't try to say, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, and sure breath can help. But what if you sat with it? It's like, I gave this simple example the other day about conscious awareness of something. And I said, Let's imagine that you stubbed your toe. And instead of going out, oh, I hurt my toe. Oh, my God, I hate that. I just would have you stubbed your toe and you stopped and just experienced the pain?

JENNA PACELLI: 16:33

Yes, yes. And that changed my life when

Nicoa Coach: 16:36

I learned that, you know, and so you're right. It's about allowing the energy in motion, the emotion to go through the body all the way in? Why don't people do it? Because they're afraid, right? What else?

JENNA PACELLI: 16:50

They they're afraid. But they also don't have a wide enough window of tolerance and resilience in their nervous system. So I like to say everybody's got a different with bowling lane. Like if we went bowling, Nikolas bowling lane is going to be different than mine, potentially, you know, versus Sally versus Bob versus whoever. So depending on the amount of developmental trauma, somebody's coming in with where they're, you're gonna see different ability to be resilient. That makes sense. And yeah, and so so people often think this is a conscious thing or a conscious choice. But really, people are just people are almost always attempting to regulate their nervous system, through whatever behavior they're engaging in. Positive, negative neutral, you know, and I like to say I was a wilderness therapist, and I would work with kids who are substance abusing and really struggling. And I've worked with a lot of folks on the edges of the bell curve, which is like the kind of extreme cases that traditional trauma treatment wasn't working for. So I got really good at getting really creative. Yeah. You know, and so, those folks, I would come I would talk to them, and I would say, All right, you know, like you're using whatever. Meth heroin, like, tell me, what do you been doing? You know, what? What landed you here? Yeah. You know, and then and then, and then I'm like, Alright, so you're doing XYZ thing. Tell me all about that. Why that might feel good for you, for sure. And then they look at me like, I've got three heads because they've been treatment so long that like everybody's telling them to stop using or stop doing whatever they're doing. But we have, we can't, that's not going to work right with these kinds of folks. And they we have to get under the hood of why does it make perfect sense that you might be doing what you're doing? Yeah. And it removes the shame, it's, then we can start to get really curious. And curiosity is the critical component that people are often missing. When it comes to treat, you know, healing themselves.

Nicoa Coach: 18:49

Yeah, I talk all the time about being the observer of self. Yes. Right? Yes. And, you know, I call her my tipsy. BFF up there. She's like, Oh, we were gonna yell today. Let me get another glass of wine and watch you. But if you're not curious, you can't expand and the body and the soul wants to continue to expand and heal. Was there was there a particular moment that you can remember that helped you kind of have your own aha moment to help you step back into life with your, with your grief, hand in hand with your grief? Yeah, I

JENNA PACELLI: 19:26

had a moment. So I was, I'm an assistant for the SC Institute. So I, you know, travel around and teach other help help the faculty teach other clinicians how to do this. That's great. And I was, uh, yeah, and it was super fun. And I love SC community. And anyway, I was down in San Diego and I we went, we went to UCLA together, and I had I had actually avoided I had I had, like, I had so much trial. So I'd other trauma. I had a major bike accident with a you know, broke my jaw. My nose had a traumatic brain injury before he died too well, but, you know, before I met him, Oh, so you know, I have a major physical trauma there. And then so LA, in general has been the sort of I'm like, Oh, get me out of here. Get me out of here. I gotta, like get out of here. You know, I still had this trauma response and I took me a long time but I was like driving from a from San Diego passing through LA. And I remember thinking to myself, so it's good as another kind of karma. At the moment, which was, I think I want to go see UCLA, I've been avoiding it. It's the most beautiful place. I think I'm gonna go and it was and I plug it into my GPS. And I like, and I. And it's like you, if anybody knows LA, it's like I was on the five and the 405. I just get on the four or five. And all of a sudden, like the fortifies right there. Yeah. It was like a movie. And I was like, I gotta change, like, three lanes. I was like,

Nicoa Coach: 20:56

you know, safely, of

JENNA PACELLI: 20:58

course, but I was like, Oh, my God, okay. Like, I'm going and I'm on the 405. And then I see signs to the town that he's buried in. And then I was, and then I said to myself, I was like, ah, do I want to do that? Because I'd said, Do I want to go to UCLA? Yeah, I want to do that. And then I was like, and then I see the signs. I'm like, like, Oh, dammit, like I Okay, do I want to do that? And I sat with it. And I sat with it as I'm driving. And I'm like, Yeah, I do. And I went, and I got the map. And it's a very confusing cemetery. And I mostly hate being there. Yeah. But it, I sat there. And I asked him for help on some so beautiful. Yeah. Which I hadn't. It hadn't occurred to me to do for a number of reasons. But I and then I, look, I got an answer. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, who's talking?

Nicoa Coach: 22:05

Did I just hear that was like,

JENNA PACELLI: 22:06

Oh, my gosh, what? Like it was a you know, ahead of it was a now and as I'm studying this stuff more, it's like, oh, that was a mediumship moment. Like there's I have a capacity for this our audience. Yeah. Clear audience Clear, clear sentience, very much clairsentience. Especially because I'm doing SEO all day with people. So there's this. So I had this moment, and it was like a light switch. It's like a light went off in my, like, all the lights turned on. If and I was like, Oh, this will just I wonder I was like Is this because I just burst into tears. And had all these realizations about my history. And what I've been doing to myself, it was like a spontaneous awakening. And I thought was like, oh, you know, it's just like a little aha moment. It's not gonna last we'll see. Yeah, that's always lasted. Yeah, it's like, last and last one. And I've just keep processing and processing and processing. And keep developing these capacities that I have that I didn't know I had. And, you know, when people can think I'm crazy, and that's fine. Like, I know what I know. And we don't care about, you know, and like, we don't care. And we don't care. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like people are like, you know, I didn't think this was a real thing, either. Back then, before I had an experience, like I had a medium approached me. A few years after he died. I'd never met her before. Or I'd met her once before for five minutes. And then I was going to teach yoga and her yoga studio, and she was just showing me how to turn the lights on and stuff. You know, like, she knew nothing about me. And then started, she's like, someone's been in the room with us, ah, for an hour, begging me to talk to you. And I don't normally do this. But did you lose someone? Oh, wow. Yeah. And I was like, you know, that was that was a long time ago. And it was initiated, you know, just had all these things that only he and I knew dreams I'd had, how he died, the names of his friends that I'd forgotten about. And why all this stuff like, yeah, and I just was so shocked. I didn't even know this was a thing. Right. You know,

Nicoa Coach: 24:13

Jenna, that's so cool. Because yeah, but I heard you say one little factor. Because people like me, who do believe in all of it. Yes, I believe in everything. And I'll listen to the pendant and I'll try to, you know, tap in and do guided writing. But I'm not. I'm not growing yet. I like to say yeah, those Claire's right. Yeah. And you said something, you said, Well, I was actively in the SCA, you know, guide guide and work. So your body was constantly doing these activities? Yeah. So do you think it's really critical? Because I mean, we, I'm thinking of two things, obviously. I'm like, Okay, so one is, well, we spent all this time saying go meditate, right? Everybody meditate? In a way, the meditation is just removing ourselves from our body. But you're saying Wait, I was actually having somatic experiences frequently, so maybe I have to be more in my body. What where is that balance? How does what do you think?

JENNA PACELLI: 25:17

Like, where's the balance between how to

Nicoa Coach: 25:19

access those skills? Yeah, I think we all have them. Yeah, but sometimes we're are we either too in the body or too grounded but you were saying that might have helped you fast Are these clear audience and clear sentience? And? Yes. Oh, no. I'm curious.

JENNA PACELLI: 25:36

i Yeah, yeah. So I okay. What I what I know about this is that when people die, they just changed frequencies. They so they're they're like on just to the, to the degree that we can't see or hear or feel them anymore. And we have we have science based research on the continuation of consciousness. Yes. Things like that. Yes.

Nicoa Coach: 26:06

And a low vibration monitors. The human beings body is a low vibration. Yes,

JENNA PACELLI: 26:13

that's right. That's exactly right. And so we are in these bodies that are very dense. And we are and then we also have trauma that makes us even lower density, lower vibration, and then we're eating garbage. And we're, you know, and we're eating, you know, or whatever we're in, in, we're imbibing in, whether it's playing violent video games, or watching, you know, all these things, like all these things that we take in with all of our senses, they're affecting you, like every single second, your body nervous system, take in a couple 100,000 inputs, every single second, and only 60 of them make it into the conscious mind. So we walk around thinking where these super rational, conscious beings and like, like, we're just being driven by our nervous systems in our amygdala, yeah. Right. And so So, you know, in order to start to shift towards connection in this way, I spent years meditating, like two hours a day. Yeah. And that didn't it didn't and I sat have a possum, of course, and I said, you know, the all these things, but I wasn't in my body and I had so much trauma that was unhealed, that there was no way I was reaching any of these things and make aware of any of it. So really, it's about clearing. It's like David, you know, Michelangelo carving David. He said, David was always in the marble is always there. I just had to remove everything. That wasn't

Nicoa Coach: 27:34

David. Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of

JENNA PACELLI: 27:37

sense. So yeah. And then there, we also have, you know, we have ages of our soul, like art, to everybody's a different soul age. And so, you know, there's different, you know, lessons that people need to learn for sure. It's life that are different from everybody and

Nicoa Coach: 27:54

purposes to I mean, it's funny, I do a lot of work with individuals who are channels and mediums. And, and I'm even in different groups with these individuals. And someone said the other day, you know, although you may not think you have that access, I think you're here to partner with this with the the individuals that are in the 3d right now who have access to five d, and you're helping them play the game more powerfully to enable it to be to be to reach the masses. Because I can play the game really well, on the ground. I'm like, I had a plan. I had a talk about it. Corporations, I can get into any organization wanted to call a President of the United States. I'll pick up the phone, I'm not afraid. So. No, I'll call him. That's right. Yeah, that's great. And I think that there's some value there, because I think I've had so many lives. And yet, part of me is like, a little jealous, right? I'm like, Oh, I just want to sit around and be in channel and like, you know, what you already are? Nicoa you're just doing it in that confident way to communicate with the people that need to be communicated with?

JENNA PACELLI: 29:01

Well, yeah, and like people that need to kind of come down to earth a little bit so that they can actually help people because yeah, because you that's so much a part of this is like I people a lot of these folks, you know, there's a get kind of a bad rap because they're up in the it leads to people it's like the other up in the clouds or they're making it up or something you know, the terms of like, what people who don't understand this believe that's right. Right. And and, and yet, it's undeniable, you know, I've talked to multiple mediums independently of them of each other that know nothing about me. They don't even know my name. I know how to do it now. To get that. That's right. I don't even tell them my last name. They've got no idea who I am. That's right. So it's like that, you know, and then then they start telling me stuff that again, only he and I knew it's like it's it's, it's a level of it's like, How aware are you and it's not a matter of if it's real or not. It's real. It's just a matter of how much you can perceive. And this is my my teacher Dharma Mitra always is talking about this. My main, one of my main yoga teachers is Sri Dharma Mitra. And he's one of the last living yoga masters in the West. And he's always talking about the senses of perception, senses of perception, senses of perception.

Nicoa Coach: 30:13

Yes. That's what the right yeah, I mean, you have a quote from him on your website. It says it is not you that requires enlightenment. It is the mind. And it's really I love that wrote it down. And I've I focus on energy leadership, which is all about attitude and perception. So there are seven different levels. And, and I can be catabolic or I can be anabolic, and I am at choice at all times. So talk to me about it is not you that requires alignment, it is the mind. So the I, I'm not really clear on that it is the power of the mind, I can train my mind to practice viewing the world from different levels. But how is that? So I'm already enlightened is what you're saying? My soul is already in? Like, that's what he's saying. And that this is just the literal practice. What do you think it means?

JENNA PACELLI: 31:04

Yeah. You know, and I'll let, I'll let you know dharma. I'll tell you what I think he means I think, based on study with him for a long time. And and of course, you know, coming from his own mouth would be great, but he's not here. So Dharma Dharma this, is that, like the understanding of our true nature? Are? How do I. So it this is about? Again, it's the idea of David, our true nature is economists. And loving. Everything else is an illusion. But I don't mean that in to say that people's trauma is not real, or that what has happened to them is not real people tend to take this and then use it to spiritually bypass and I want to be very clear about this. Which is that, yes, horrible things happen to other people all the time. Every single day, there's horrendous shadow in humanity inhumanity. And deep down, you are not your trauma. You are not what has happened to you, you are whole at your core. Oh, such a big topic. So so you're holy, your core, you are eternal. You are deathless, right. You know, and then the mind that the mind and the psyche and the ego are the things that get fractured, and, and

Nicoa Coach: 32:55

they're supposed to get fractured. That's kind of the point of all of this, too. I think that if you for those who want to tap into their own spirituality, or religion or whatever, I think that whatever that source is, we're all just an extension of it. And source wants to feel everything from probably said this before on another podcast, but everything from murder to orgasm, right. I mean, it's all about having the experience. And yeah, and you know, it's the yin and the yang, the good and the bad. It's all just Yeah, from one end to the other. All of it has some sort of value, which was where I even started with you was what do you think the value was? In this lifetime? And it sounds like you're still exploring that. But a lot of what you've shared today sounds like you're really nailing it. Like, like, I think, you know.

JENNA PACELLI: 33:47

Yeah, I tend to I tend to, I tend to hold the stance of I don't know. No, I understand that. But, but but but but I do. Yeah. Yeah, but I do. I mean, it's like all all the teachers were saying the same things, y'all. That's right. Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad bahala. Swami thoughts, you know, like, all the Guru's in India, they were all saying the same thing. And it's our human mind that that subs, you know, puts our projection. And we anthropomorphize divinity into a being with a gender and a body. It's like, it doesn't make any sense. No, it source? You know, yeah. So so it's like, so in terms of like, what, what I'm doing here, you know, and I've gotten this from multiple, again, intuitives. And, like intuitives and psychics, and I didn't used to do that stuff. And I do that stuff now. And I Oh, yeah, I wasn't doing that stuff. Well, like

Nicoa Coach: 35:01

it's nice to have validation along the path. And I think yeah, and do so. Yeah.

JENNA PACELLI: 35:07

Yeah. And I you know, they just say, Jenna, you've got a really big you have a very bright future, but it's a big career. You have a big career dharma. Dharma means path. Right. Okay, and Buddhism and so, you know, it's like this, this, this this duty, you know, there's a sacred duty that I have here to take the suffering that I have been through to some toward other people. And yeah, like I, you know, it's like, Yes, I have my own life. And I have my own personal life and I want to do certain things in my personal life. But like, really that's the that's the consistent feedback that I keep getting. Yeah. So in terms of what I'm supposed to be doing here, yeah, it's like, I've been having people tell me this for years, like you have a big, big career dharma. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 35:59

as long as we give ourselves permission to follow the path that makes us feel good. And we feel led and compelled to do I think that's why most people are suffering in their careers is because they're like, Why the hell am I not happy enough? And it's because there's some creative element that needs to be expressed. And if they can't find a way to do that in the context of where they are, then they're going to suffer. So it sounds like you found that path quite nicely and naturally, and your partner helped you get there even faster as so back to the value in all right. And I love what you talk about. There's a book called The Art of Possibility by Ben zander. Have you ever heard of it?

JENNA PACELLI: 36:43

I think I've heard of it. Yeah. It's

Nicoa Coach: 36:45

what you're saying about the sculpture of David. He's like, I give everybody in a day and then I just can't I'm polishing you. Like, I'm just like, sculpting you around your head, because you're already perfect as you are. Yeah. And you know, I also you're making me think of Paul Selig's work the champ channeled works of Paul Selleck, when he says, you know, your purpose is, I am here I am Here I am here. I know who I am. I know what I am. And I know how I serve. And if we can find that how I serve and it's really all love, love and love. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And loving yourself through this and loving yourself enough to be able to serve others in love, I think becomes the ultimate goal. Man, you and I know we could talk all day about this.

JENNA PACELLI: 37:36

Yes, yes. Yes. I mean, and loving other people really is about how can how can I can I be with you and your pain and be present with you and not turn from you? Yeah, it's not about I'm going to love you when it's easy. I'm going to love you when you're good. It's and this is again barring domestic violence and abuse of course that but like you know, like that is that is so often what people are missing this entire world is missing. They're being held in their pain. And people are constantly trying to have their pain seen and validated and they act in all sorts of wild ways to do so. Right and it's all this projected disowned stuff that people have not integrated some people call it shadow work some people call it you know healing your inner child some people call it like it's it's it's where is the darkness within me that I am not looking at. And I know this because I did this for a long time I operated out of this darkness and this disowned pain for a long time and abused myself and was with abusive people and trying to make a hole trying to fill a hole that's not fillable

Nicoa Coach: 39:06

Yeah, how do you view yourself now? How are you? How are the practices what do they look like now? Yeah,

JENNA PACELLI: 39:14

the practice now is meeting myself in every as often as I can. By you know, saying to myself, I love you just like as you are. And and and like your pain is I see your pain. I'm going to validate my own pain. I'm going to also tell myself when I'm proud of myself, yeah, good for you. I'm tracking my body all day. I am you know, nourishing myself whether it's through nourishing foods or exercise or getting a massage or connecting with loved ones. You know, so there's a lot of ways of really showing up and I think it's, but it's really about can I stay connected to myself? Can I learn to stop abandoning myself? If this is what I teach people in my work in this life? I will die happy yeah. It can you can't do it. Can I teach you how to be with yourself such that you don't need to leave yourself ever again. Because everybody's the most of the problems in the world are coming from the issue of self abandonment.

Nicoa Coach: 40:28

So were you talking to my therapists tried before. I'm not kidding you. It's been like, I care for my mother and my children. Yes. And my husband, and my life. And myself, you know, where can I stop abandoning myself became the question just this week. Of course, of course. These are beautiful topics, I hope they will spark a lot of interest in our listeners. And, you know, I will, of course will put all the information about how they can reach you work with you, follow you. Couple of questions, before we wrap up just any big takeaway that your biggest learning that you'd want to make sure if I've got you at the top of the mountain, what do you want to say to everybody?

JENNA PACELLI: 41:27

Please stop hiding from yourself. Please invest in yourself, through therapy, through coaching through trauma informed practices that help you get in your body and stay in your body, not just override and desensitize. So many self care practices out there are actually just overrides. And they're just desensitizing people. Even if they appear healthy on the surface, they can be fine. And it helps people manage but every single moment, most of the work that I do, I see people coming in with tons of awareness, tons of work under their belt. And what they're doing is a constant practice of overriding their what's really going on for them? Yeah. And that is the human thing that we do to ourselves that our big Nia cortices do, to manage the pain.

Nicoa Coach: 42:29

Yeah, and to survive. And yet we are safer now than ever before and have evolved into the ability to be conscious. We're no longer running out the cave. So that's right. Yeah. So if we can be conscious enough of that tendency, you know, if you can put it in front of you and look at it, and make and feel it, then you can heal. Right? Yeah.

JENNA PACELLI: 42:53

Yeah. And our bodies are still in that cave. You know, so our conscious minds are not but our bodies are. Yeah, and people are, you know, so much of our again, especially Western, like, like, sort of pushing through what's really going on is, is, you know, the Yeah, all these overrides that are that are that are keeping people stuck. And even just like, I know, people go to talk therapy, and that's really helpful. And they talk and talk and talk, but usually the inner talking a lot not be able to stop and really listen to your body and not be able to track sensation is just a sign of deeper nervous system dysregulation. You know, so people are abandoning themselves by talking constantly, or by being so externally focused, or, you know, it's like there's such a, it's such a subtle, nuanced practice of how people are leaving themselves. And a lot of it looks really productive. Why am I laughing? Because it's funny, because it's funny, because it's ridiculous. And we all do it. Yeah. I mean, we all do it. We all do it. And I mean, I go into therapy, and I still, you know, I go into my mentor, and I'm like, Well, you know, and it's like, yeah, because, you know, there's a lot there. And so but underneath that, you know, know that that's being driven by your nervous system. Yeah. And you can spend a lot of time you could spend years and years and years, you spent decades talking about that. But if you don't get underneath that, you're just going to be talking about it. And on a hamster wheel.

Nicoa Coach: 44:09

Yeah. However, I have a lot of clients that have therapists, and they say, Well, I feel like I'm just wasting my time, or I'm just catching up with a therapist, and then the hours over and I'm like, Yeah, that's right. And then I get Yeah, and personally, I always get a little resentful to my therapist for not strategically interrupting me. Well,

JENNA PACELLI: 44:24

the most therapists don't know how so they've pulled therapists and they say, Hey, they'll say, hey, what percentage of you thinks that learning teaching people to be in their bodies is important? 95% of therapists say it is. And then they add, the next question was, how many of you know how to do that? 5% are like me. So therapists are not you know, and coaches typically are not equipped, and they're doing their best and they have, but they you know, I see a lot of people that get trained in one modality for one weekend and then call themselves a trauma, right therapist or whatever, whatever facilitator or something and it's like that is not you know, when you're working with the way that the body that holds trauma is highly complex, you can't just desensitize people out of it and say it's a somatic approach. It's it's very much an art and learning to track people and and so most therapists you know, despite very good intentions, and big heart, yeah, are undertrained and under experience, and, you know, I mean, no offense to anybody. No, I agree with you. That's just the truth is, you know, and I go, it's just, you know, you watch people and I go into trainings, and I see how much People are I can tell, you know, people come in and I'm watching these therapists, and I can tell immediately, who is in their body and who's not. Right. And so it's, you know, it just is what it is. And people were getting there. It's just it's a very new way of approaching the work. And I really, you know, think thank goodness appear Levine and all of his work. I mean, he's got the madness to PhDs. Like he, this is all he's done. Yeah. And oh, my God. And yeah, and thank God

Nicoa Coach: 45:58

for people like you who are educating and teaching everybody about how to do this. And, and you've got so many resources available. I encourage everybody to go online and check you out. Jenna patellae.com. Right. Yeah. And then, of course, I'll put it in the show notes. I'm gonna ask you one last question, because I want to honor your time since it took us 5000 start to get going today. Okay, what do you want to celebrate the most about yourself, and this life fi design that you've created.

JENNA PACELLI: 46:32

I want to celebrate the my ability, the work that I've done to be able to be authentically myself, and surround myself with people who who see and appreciate my authentic self, and then remove myself from people that don't. Because I spent a lot of years subjecting myself to abuse and narcissistic abuse and and horrific codependency and just super toxic toxic behaviors and relationships with various kinds of people and removing myself immediately from those situations now, to not that was a form of self abandonment in an attempt to get my needs met by people that are not capable. And so so it's both it's like both like my ability to be with myself and love myself and connect to myself and say, like, Hey, here's what I do. And here's like, you know, this is how I am. And this is, you know, that's it. That's it and like, I have amazing friends and mentors who love me and wrap their arms around me, and I choose to be with those people who are my chosen family and not with the folks that, you know, when I respond when I say what I'm experiencing, all they say is weird. Yeah. You know, or like, whatever. It's like that stuff doesn't work for me. And I listened to that now. I don't continue to. Yeah, surround myself with folks that that are not healthy.

Nicoa Coach: 48:07

Good for you. I want to celebrate that with you. Thank you. I mean, really, wow. And I have I have to say you're probably much younger than me too. So you're doing it sooner and earlier than most people. And I know that the training has helped you. But you had to go through all that trauma, in order to be the powerful being that you are with this real purpose driven life. And I really admire you. I've enjoyed your Instagram account. And you and your best friend, having so much fun and losing the car this weekend are so funny. I was like, What are you talking about? And I love your dog linen. Oh, I'm just having a blast following you keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you for sharing your voice today. I maybe let's touch base again in a year. And let's say

JENNA PACELLI: 49:01

that would be great. I'd love to chatting with you. Thank you so much for the work you're doing and getting this information into the world and all your thoughtful questions and the research you did I mean, it's just I'm trying so thank you. You're welcome your shows? Yeah, you are welcome.

Nicoa Coach: 49:16

And I think both of us are compelled and, and you know if anybody has any questions, please message us. If you can't read the agenda directly come through me and we'll figure out how to get to the answers. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Jennifer Gardner: 49:31

Thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with Nicola for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with Nicoa and check out our website Coffee with nicoa.com and that's Nicoa N IC O A. We look forward to talking with you soon. And enjoy your coffee between now and then