S1 EP45: JEN LISS

Breathe In, Breathe Out! Intentionally REPEAT! Jen Liss and Nicoa explore the power of BREATHWORK and it's positive impact on her life with real practices for you to try! Jen is an amazing breathworker, coach and international speaker who knows the power of self-awareness, doing the work and choosing conscious practices every day to calm the nervous system. Nicoa and Jen reflect on the powerful phrase YOU ARE SAFE to help us help ourselves have a life that is more fun and filled with ease. Make note of Jen's daily  RELEASE, ALIGN and SHINE practice as well as learn how to unleash your inner sparkly UNICORN! 

Learn more about Jen at her website.

Her favorite coach: Cathy Heller.

Her husband Joey's award winning whiskey: Westward Whiskey.

What is RTT? Nicoa explains it here in her Espresso Shot #34.

That other tool we mentioned STRENGTHS FINDER 2.0 by Tom Rath.

Buy your copy of YOUR LIFE BY DESIGN: A Coffee With Nicoa Self-Care Coaching Journal
on Amazon today! 

Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:01

Grab your coffee and join me Nicoa For a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Hey, chinless. You are on coffee with Nicoa. Good morning to the West Coast. Am I right?

JEN LISS: 0:30

You are correct. Yep, out here in Portland, Oregon. It's a nice, sunny morning. Oh, thanks for having me on. Nicoa This is so fantastic.

Nicoa Coach: 0:38

Oh, thank you for doing it. I mean, you're this amazing podcast host yourself. So whenever another podcaster says yes to a podcaster. I'm like, Oh, I like this. I'm honored. I'm honored. So thank you. And I'm really glad it's sunny for you today because my brother lives out in Eugene, Oregon. And he's like, there's hardly ever a

JEN LISS: 0:59

weirdest thing. It is sunny from the end of May until October every day. It's the most predictable weather because it's sunny every day for that period. And then the rest of the year. It's cloudy every day cloudy.

Nicoa Coach: 1:13

Weather. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's beautiful out there. And I now know why we were typing to each other when we were planning this so late in the evening. I'm like, maybe we should go to bed. It was like midnight here and you're like, yeah. Oh, she lives on the West Coast.

JEN LISS: 1:28

I'm also I'm a night owl. So yeah. Well,

Nicoa Coach: 1:31

that makes sense. Well, you're more than a night owl. You are an expert. goofball, you are a joy enthusiast. And like me, a coach, a speaker, a podcast host. And a unique little skill you have that we're going to dive deep into today is that you are a breathwork expert. And I can't wait to understand that more. I get it. I know what that is. I've done it in yoga, but I've never really done it and everybody's doing it. So we're gonna talk about it sound good? Writing. Well, you're exciting and I've been having a blast paying attention to your website and your podcast the so everybody make sure you make note the untethered with Jin LIS it's je n li SS is that right? One, enter twos.

JEN LISS: 2:20

One n one and gen

Nicoa Coach: 2:22

one and Gen Z. We won't be able to forget that. And make sure you're listening. It's in the top 3% of podcasts. I mean, you've really knocked it out of the park and I love your you do something similar to me you have these pontificating podcasts. Well, it's not just you know, with other people, so I like doing my espresso shots and I like pontificating. So you do too. I think we're kindred souls in that that arena.

JEN LISS: 2:47

I like that you call it that yesterday, my husband was like, Well, you did one of those Joel Osteen episodes, like he was like, like, What are you talking about? He was like, it was really good. You were like, really on it? It's like, okay, I guess

Nicoa Coach: 3:01

you were really good. Yeah, the one you posted today about confidence. I was like, Go girl. Yes, yes. But let's start on a lighter note of trying to find out why we're all a little bit insecure. Let's go back to the past week, you have had quite the set of experiences between bungee jumping, and kissing llamas? Could you please extrapolate a little for us, so we know what the hell is going on in your life by design?

JEN LISS: 3:33

This is so true. I didn't really put those two and two together. Except that thank you for helping me write my email later. Because those are the two things that I'm definitely going to highlight. Yeah, mine. My nephew was in town this past week. And you know, it was such a delight hanging out with him. He's 19 years old. And I just feel like he is what I wanted to be at that age. And I did travel at a young age, but not quite that young. He decided and did it to come out to Oregon and live all summer. He has another aunt who lives out here too. And so he came to Oregon and 19 years old and decided to live out here. And he is working and just making his way through and he came up here to Portland this past weekend. And he one day he said something to me on Saturday. He was like, why even do something if it doesn't bring you joy? Oh, you're 19 years old. And you're saying this? You know, I'm like, look at that, like what could I have had you in my classroom to like 20 years. But that is the message that I want to impart on people like watching him live this life and it hasn't been easy him coming out here. He left all his friends you know, at night teen to suddenly be alone on the coast of Oregon in a tiny town. That's not easy, right? But anyway, he comes to Portland and he's like, we're sitting there and we're having lunch and he looks at me and he's like, what if we go bungee jumping this weekend? And I was like, Absolutely not. Oh, absolutely not. Well, two days later, I guess what I was doing jumping off a bridge.

Nicoa Coach: 5:06

Oh my God and I saw you jump it off that bridge and your husband did it too. And you guys just looked like you were having a blast. I want to do it. I've been to the original bungee jumping location in Australia. Australia, right? We were in New Zealand. I went there, but we were living on a shoestring budget and my ex husband and I stood there and watched everybody jump into this day. I regret not charging the ticket cost, you know, just going into debt to do it. And maybe, maybe that's why we didn't stick together. It was it was it was foreshadowing I was supposed

JEN LISS: 5:40

to bungee jump together. Yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 5:44

Right. We should have bungee jump together. That's what it was. Hey, I'm Jen. Where were you when I needed you? Probably not. You're young you probably weren't even

JEN LISS: 5:54

I wasn't bungee jumping at that point. It's something I said I would never do and you know, here we are. Never Say Never

Nicoa Coach: 6:00

will tell me what it felt like to be you when you were bungee jumping.

JEN LISS: 6:04

Oh my goodness. You know, it was I was very calm. I was very calm. And you know, I've been doing we're going to talk quite a bit about breathwork I've been doing a lot of nervous system regulation. And I've done a lot of scary things. I have jumped out of an airplane. You know, I have hang gliding we've done a lot of adventurous stuff. But this is what I said I would never do. And so you would think that I would just be so revved up but I was doing a lot of nervous system activities up there just like I'm I'm going to keep myself calm. And I was calm until the moment I left that platform and I lost it in the video. You can hear everybody on the platform just hilariously cracking up because I just I let loose the most blood curdling scream. And I don't even remember it coming out of me, you know, but as soon as I hit the bottom, I started hysterically laughing. So it was it went from just screaming to laughing and it was fun. I did it twice. I came back up and I want to go you know, that's

Nicoa Coach: 7:04

right. You did it twice. But you did it forward and then you did it backward. Right? Right.

JEN LISS: 7:09

Right backward was do not recommend. It was scary.

Nicoa Coach: 7:14

I thought you said backward was easier. Okay,

JEN LISS: 7:17

it was easier to jump but falling backward was scarier. Okay. Yeah, I

Nicoa Coach: 7:23

guess you're no control.

JEN LISS: 7:25

There's not not that there's any control falling forward either but at least you

Nicoa Coach: 7:28

can there's no there's Ross fall is not a trust fall.

JEN LISS: 7:32

I mean, that is the epitome of a trust fall. I had to well

Nicoa Coach: 7:35

Yeah, nobody's gonna catch you except the universe right? You were all fully taken care of and the bungee does. So I'm proud of you. Celebrating that for you. And then what you came off the path and kiss the llama What the hell was that about? Something yesterday happened? No llama drama. That's what you said. There was no llama drama this week.

JEN LISS: 7:55

No llama drama. My husband works at he distills whiskey. And he works a place that was having their company party and they happen to have two llamas and they had this bowl of carrots and I was like, what's the bowl of carrots for and the lady's like we'll put one in your mouth and you'll see. So I put one in my mouth and the llama comes up and takes it out of your mouth. And so it's like a little walnut kiss. It was very sweet.

Nicoa Coach: 8:17

Oh, my God that's genuinely was very sweet and fun and connecting with nature at the whiskey distillery. I love this so much. Shall we do a little plug for for the whiskey because I'm actually a big whiskey fan and we live on Whiskey Creek. So which distillery does he work with?

JEN LISS: 8:33

Oh, you should try their whiskey. It's called westward whiskey. It was named the top five whiskey in the world this year. They it started right here in Portland and they are growing a lot. I don't know if you can get it shipped to the state that you're living in. I know liquor laws are weird, but it's it's very good. It's little pricey.

Nicoa Coach: 8:54

I am in North Carolina. So the chances are pretty slim. So anyway, but I will look into it for sure. And I'll tell my brother who's out there right now. Yeah, actually, he's about to move. Sorry. I don't have a reason to come visit. Now. I was thinking oh man now right when making new friends in Portland. And he's will

JEN LISS: 9:10

tell him to bring some westward went on his on his way out. Ah,

Nicoa Coach: 9:15

perfect. Exactly. That's exactly what I'll tell him to do. Perfect. So yeah, so we digress. But one of the things that you highlight, let's go ahead and jump into it because I want I want our listeners today to really understand what it feels like to be chinless because if you're out here, shining your you know inner Tinkerbell and doing your beautiful phenomenal public speaking professional speaking, keynote speaking. We want to know how you got all that positivity and energy back into your world. So why don't we start with tell us a little bit about little gin?

JEN LISS: 9:52

Huh? Yeah, little Jen was very worried about what everybody thought all the time and not so worried about what everybody thought All the time that she tried to control what everybody thought all the time, in order to make herself feel safe, I realized now but I didn't realize at the time, how just unsafe I felt in my body all growing up, and I grew up, which was great. I honestly, I had such a great childhood. So I always have to just say, like, I have the best parents, they're still together, my family is awesome. They all live like within a mile of each other. It was such an awesome family dynamic. But even within that, we all have our own challenges. And we all have these things that we face. And so my thing was just always seeing myself through other people's eyes, in order to make sure that I was okay. And so I lived so much of my life that way, that I really never understood who I was, and it was coming out, it was coming out of me, other people saw it, but my internal dialogue was so negative, it was so negative. And it reflected in the way that I saw the world too. And while I had this huge light inside of me, and I could also feel that what I was projecting and what I was feeling inside was just so negative. And my husband said this about me for years, he's like, I don't understand, there's like this such this negative side, but then there's like, this hugely positive side to and I'm like, I know, I feel like two people. And I felt like that most of my life, you know, so yeah, I was driven by a lot of those kinds of dynamics. And I'll pause there.

Nicoa Coach: 11:28

Now, that's really important to share with people because they don't We don't always spend the time reflecting back on. What how did I show up as a young woman or young child, you know, how did I show up in in my life, even though things were all good? We forget, we're being influenced by society, marketing, that girl that set to rose over that teacher that said, there's your mother, no, you're wearing that dress with the back missing, you know, and I mean, all sorts of things that influence us. When do you have the earliest memory of that fear of not being safe? Just to be your authentic self? It? Oh, my goodness. I get so curious. Yeah, I

JEN LISS: 12:11

think that's such a fun question, because I've done enough hypnotherapy. Now, my first memory of not being safe. And this might sound wild to anyone who has not done hypnotherapy in some of these modalities is when I was in my mother's womb. So my very first memory of not being safe and feeling like something's wrong with me has been that's my internal dialogue that I have worked with, is in my mother's womb, that's the very first memory. But really, like one of my core memories growing up was in fourth grade, when my teacher issued this assignment to write an American history essay. And I had this fun idea to write it about President Taft getting stuck in a bathtub like that was my incident, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna write it about this funny thing kind of goofy. I could see myself like showing up on presentation day in like this fake bathtub with these bubble balloons and showing up wearing a fake mustache and a monocle. And I was going to give this amazing presentation. That was my first inkling. And then I started looking around at everybody else. I was like, what I'm going to do is not what everybody else is doing. Everybody else is writing their papers about these serious things. And so I ended up not writing it about what sounded fun to me and doing it about something so serious, okay, everybody's doing serious stuff. I'm going to do serious stuff. And so that thematic, right, there has been so much of my life. That's the first core memory of that, that I recall that just like standing up in front of that class and giving that presentation on this horrible thing that I wrote this horrible paper on. I don't even remember what it was about. I just know it was miserable, right? It

Nicoa Coach: 13:56

was no fun. And it wasn't entertaining. And it could have been so much fun. And oh my gosh, it wasn't me. Thank you. Yeah, it when you and what you ended up doing, right. So you're like, bored, you're like, Okay, I gotta do this because this is conforming, right? And you're right, it's about second grade, third grade, fourth grade pupils start really having those significant moments and I'll never forget misspelling babies during the competitive side, each side of the room in third grade, I misspelled babies. Yeah, don't even ask me to spell it now might panic. But

JEN LISS: 14:28

but the bottom is for me and the fifth grade spelling bee.

Nicoa Coach: 14:33

Well, my misspelling came right after the phrase, Oh, this one's easy. You've got this. And then I was like, oh are you kidding me? Nicoa I can't believe you misspelled that, like, why apostrophe s y'all. I'm all about it. Anyway, you're right on about those memories. I'm a hypnotherapist as well. I don't know if you've ever done any training around it, but I do rapid transformational therapy, which takes people back to those scenes and I have not yet had someone, maybe they were in utero when they have had people have a black scene like a dark scene, which could sometimes be, you know, pre birth. But those early scenes influence, the autonomic nervous system, right becomes a sub conscious fear that can easily be triggered. And as you become more conscious over the years, then you can fix it. But how did you end up recognizing that? I mean, if you're already with your husband, when he's like you got a deep dark tug, stop yourself, what kind of work? Could you start doing to try to overcome that? Yeah,

JEN LISS: 15:44

it was about five years ago that I had a pretty big wake up call. I suppose it was a little bit before that. But the biggest I just I realized that guilt and worry, were my default emotions. That was where I was spending so much of my time wasn't guilt and worry, I was like, What is going on? And I began working with a coach. And that led me to meet all of these people who do alternative things like what you do that with the RTT. And you know, other things other than which, you know, talk therapy is great, and it can get some people so far. But for somebody like me, where there's so much disembodiment, that was happening for me, there was a lot of the energy work and things have brought me back home to myself in a way that talking about it wasn't doing. But also podcasting is therapy. So all of these different things that I've tried, I've just tried so many what I call untethered modalities, things that are a little bit off the norm and becoming more and more popular because people are starting to see the benefits of it. That has really brought me back home and just exploring some of these things with curiosity, and allowing myself to uncover Oh, I didn't realize but this is what was going on. And that awareness is so huge, right?

Nicoa Coach: 17:03

You did the work? I mean, it cost must have been so great. I mean, what was the conversion? In the moment? Was it because your husband recognized it? Or had you begun to get kind of annoyed with yourself? I've been there.

JEN LISS: 17:16

Yeah. You know, the conversion moment was actually a while before this, where I did a StrengthsFinder. So I had left my career as a hairstylist. I was a hairstylist for 10 years. And I realized one day one of my favorite clients came in, and she sat down in my chair, and I was like, I don't even want her to be here today. Like, I just hope she just wants to make this easy. And I was like, something's really wrong. That led me to leave that career, go back to school. So when I'm back in school, one of my educators had us take this StrengthsFinder quiz. I don't know if you've ever taken it, but it's pretty cool. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 17:51

I do it all the time. Strengths finders, 2.0, we'll put it in the show notes. So you guys, it's a free assessment, you can go figure out what your strengths are. And I bet you and I both had Woo.

JEN LISS: 18:02

No, no, my top one, this is what sent me on this journey. Nicoa my top one was judgment. And F judgment is my top strength. I was so disturbed by that it led me down this, like, you know, self discovery rabbit hole of what is going on that that is my job. And first of all, what I realized is that it's not a bad thing to how judge, right? It's not bad. But mine was a little bit out of control. I wasn't always using it to the best of its capability. And so now I've I've honed that more, and it's actually further down on the list and other things have come up, which is the journey for most people.

Nicoa Coach: 18:46

But what was the cost of that judgment in your life? Like, you're like crap, I want to make a change. This is not serving me. You know, why wasn't it serving you? Some people think they're in love with their judgment.

JEN LISS: 18:59

Yeah, it was hurting other people, and hurting myself. You know, when we're, again, judgment is not necessarily a bad thing. But when we can approach life with more curiosity, and less from a place of, you know, feeling strongly, like black and white, you know about this or that it needs to be this way, you know, that way is wrong. I was one of those people who was so judgy about somebody using the wrong form of your

Nicoa Coach: 19:34

my daughter does.

JEN LISS: 19:36

Thanks, somebody got me a t shirt that said, I'm silently correcting your grammar and I wear that as a badge of honor. Whereas now I'm like, I don't know that I really, you know, that's not something that I really want people thinking about me as these days. But you know that that was just I just realized that this is not necessarily helping people in the best way possible. And you know, It's not really the person that I want to be, and I wanted to lean in to the light. So that's what I began to do.

Nicoa Coach: 20:06

Good for you, you know, and plus carrying that what we call an energy leadership, which is one of the tools that I use with all my clients. We call that catabolic energy. And it comes from the ego and the need to identify and be in control and feel safe by judging others or fighting or, Oh, I'm a victim to the circumstance. And over time, that's super heavy, and it creates dis ease. So it's, it's not that you go there, like you said, good or bad. We can judge we cannot judge. But it's how long do you stay there? And is it serving you or not? So you got to coach? Was that the first step? Are you been in therapy? You know, I'm curious. A coach was?

JEN LISS: 20:48

Yeah, the coach was the first step. And I had been listening to her podcast out of desperation. Because I had gotten burned out on that hairstyling career. Well, in the new corporate career that I was in, I felt myself getting to that same point. And I was like, what is happening here that I feel like I have reached to this same thing again. Even though I had loved both jobs. I love both jobs. It was so creative. It was so fun. I was traveling, I was getting to write scripts and see them come to life on video, it was such a fun job. And I also felt myself so unfulfilled. And so I had gone in and typed creative career, you know, help. And it had popped up this podcast. And so I started listening to her podcast, which is, you know, possibly how people have found a podcast like yours, too. So I'm so grateful that she was there. And then I found out she had a coaching program. And like, I don't even know what a coach is, I have no idea why I would need or want a coach. I ended up joining the program. And that opened up so many doors for me. Oh,

Nicoa Coach: 21:53

perfect. I do love that. I hope that I mean, that does actually work when people are searching. I always think the teacher shows up when they're ready, you know. So you found that person that was going to be the impetus for you. You know, what you describe though I call it same circus, different tent. So you'd left one industry space, you moved into another and then the the newness and the excitement can wear off and then you realize, oh crap, why am I still kind of dreading Monday morning? What's up with that? So the pool, it was really pulling you. So how did you uncover your creativity and what you wanted to do next?

JEN LISS: 22:29

I that was where things really began to unravel. And she helped me to come back home to me, and really begin to do some of that self discovery work. What is it that fulfills me what lights me up? What is fun for me, and one of the most life changing exercises that she gave me was show up to work tomorrow and look around and say what looks fun to me. And so I did that. I did that I turned around to my boss. And I said, Wow, what he's working on looks fun today. And so I said, Can I sit in on a meeting? And I did, I sat in on a meeting. And that ended up completely changing the trajectory of my life because I got involved in a learning development project, helping employees to self actualize, helping them to realize their gifts and talents and skills. And I realized that my gift that lights me up so much, is actually helping people to do that, too. So it was like very meta.

Nicoa Coach: 23:25

Very meta, I love Oh, we need a hashtag that a very meta? Well, you know, it's kind of a theme, the fact that you said, I looked around and then I asked, and I can at least five of the podcasts in the last few months have had individuals share similar decision making and action oriented motivation, you know, motivated action. And I did the same I saw somebody and I was like, I was she was that job to do with that girl's doing. And that's how I went from communications to human resources. I was like, I like that. So good for you. And how long did you stay in that role? Are you out on your own full time now? Or are you I'm sorry, I didn't notice if you had already left the corporate world or?

JEN LISS: 24:13

Yes, I have left the corporate world. I did that last October. And that I am actually now I have my own coaching practice and breathwork practice that I'm building. And I'm also working for that coach. So that she knew that I was leaving my corporate job and reached out and said, Hey, we're looking for some support. And so it's been such a mutually beneficial thing because I'm building my practice while being able to support her which feels like this beautiful I'm giving back in a way. So it's been really fun.

Jennifer Gardner: 24:46

We hope you're enjoying listening to this episode of Coffee with Nicola. Make sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode and follow Coffee with Nicoa on Instagram to find inspiring content that will help you begin creating your life. By Design

Nicoa Coach: 25:00

when you gave notice, what did it feel like to be you?

JEN LISS: 25:04

Oh, you know, I felt so liberated. I felt untethered, I felt free, and immediately then felt terrified, which is how we feel, right? It's like stepping off that bridge when I bungee jumped. It feels so freeing and so awesome. And you feel, you know, so much adrenaline. And then it's also absolutely terrifying at the same time, yeah. And so the process is regulated your way through that. And I knew it would be that way. Right? Like, you know, when you leave a job, you're going to have all of those, all of those scary thoughts that come up. And so there's a lot of navigating that that has to happen.

Nicoa Coach: 25:43

You haven't even been out a year, I want to remind you, I've been out for 15. And I've never missed a mortgage payment. Yet, it does not mean that I didn't have to use savings every once in a while. But it does mean that you can do it. So I just want to reassure you. Thank you, I think you need my reassurance. But you know, at the end of the day, it is terrifying. And I've never felt more coherent than when I quit. So, seven weeks later, was the panic attack on the front porch when my husband wanted to buy something that I was like, why are you not paying it? Why do you want to buy something? But that's the nervous system. Right? So how have you been navigating the last, you know, almost a year, you've only got a couple months left? So you've done it? How have you been managing? And here's the question that came up with earlier. When do you most often need to practice your breath work?

JEN LISS: 27:07

It's when i The when I well, I practice it every day, I do breathe every day, because I have found that it really supports me. I love to meditate, but I have a really busy mind. And you know that that worrying that overthinking that perfectionism that's so ingrained in so many of us, and it's definitely ingrained in me. So breathwork is a means of getting ourselves to a meditative present state where you can feel into what you actually are, which is energy. So that's what I use it for every single day. And when I need it most is when I'm not caring for myself, when I catch myself, you know, waking up and instantly looking at the phone, checking email, you know, then it's like, I've got to stop and lean into something that is going to serve and support me. And so it's a tool that you can pull out at any moment of any day and just take a couple of breaths and shift your energy. And so I use it a lot.

Nicoa Coach: 28:04

How I'm sure And absolutely, and everybody that's listening, if you don't know anything about this, I'm going to have you walk us through it. But I want to ask first, because again, this is all about the ability to be self aware of our past so that others can go oh, that's like me. So, you know, you didn't just go from I'm in this corporate world. And now I'm this awesome guru coach, who understands breathwork had you been learning about breathwork, prior with your coach or elsewhere, tell me a little bit about getting insight into calming the nervous system and leveraging this type of tool.

JEN LISS: 28:40

Yeah, so I did a ton of coaching. And she is, by the way, a phenomenal coach. And I've coached with many other people since then, like done the coaching sampler. Because I like a variety of people in a variety of things. So I've done so many things in the past seven or so years.

Nicoa Coach: 28:57

We should put her info in there too. What's her name?

JEN LISS: 29:00

Kathy Heller. Kathy Heller. Got it. Yeah. So I worked with her as she's a mindset coach. And there's a lot of mindset coaches out there. And I get so far, I get so far with the mindset stuff. And then she invited somebody in to one of her programs one day, who does breath work, and I did this breath work with this individual. And at the end of it, I felt cracked open. I was sobbing and I had no idea why. And it just shifted something inside of me. I felt, again for the first time, feelings that I had not felt that I didn't remember ever feeling. And I was like What in the world. And then I went to an event and this individual was offering breathwork again, and it happened again. And I was like, Okay, I need to find something is here for me, obviously. So I ended up finding out that she teaches people to do breath work. I have like no knowledge of breath work, except these couple of experiences. And it was a full body yes to sign up for her program. And I had no idea why I was like, I'm sorry, Joey my husband. I have no idea why I'm signing up for this. But I am Yeah, and I'm doing it. And it has become very apparent why I was doing it because it helped me get back into my body, which is where That's where our intuition talks to us is through physical sensations through our emotions, and so many of us are disconnected and that was my case I could get so far with my mindset stuff. But I I wasn't feel laying. And so that's what I help people to do is get back into those feelings. So that you can begin to move forward on the things that you just keep fighting yourself in an eddy, you know, you're just cycling in this like little spot on the river. It's like, why can't I get it flowing again, I was flowing just fine. But those when we don't have awareness of the things that are keeping us stuck, and a lot of times it's emotional things because your heart has memory, just like your brain. Oh, absolutely.

Nicoa Coach: 30:59

And though you're absolutely spot on, because it's, it's the feeling stage that people are afraid to go tap into. Because they had bad feelings in the past. And I've never seen human beings are like, Oh, that feels bad. Give me a pill or I don't like that. Nope, everybody be happy. And I'm guilty of it too. Telling my kids having thoughts of oh my god, you're ruining dinner, because the one kid is like, upset. And I was looking forward to this attached to this perfect dinner. And now I've got an upset kid. And now what am I making that mean? And and then we teach so we teach kids be okay, be okay. And then here you are as an adult trying to be okay all the time and living the American dream? Well, goodness. Tell us what she taught you. Can you and like a high level? Like, what was it that you did in that exercise? Can we do an exercise today? Like, I don't know, what do you think?

JEN LISS: 31:55

Yeah, we can do a mini exercise. So the breath work that I do, and the breath work that she does are meditative breathwork journeys. So the intent of it is to help your quiet your mind, get into your body, feel the physical sensations that are there with your awareness, and that allows them to release because those physical sensations in your body are like little preschoolers, you know, they're like your kids that are like, Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, look at me. And like you just said, we're ignoring it, we're pushing it down, we're saying I'm okay. And when we live our entire life like that, it's like, you've got the calm surface on top, and there's so much churning underneath. And what we're feeling is this dis ease of this constant churning state. And we can't access the ease that really exists even beneath that. So with breathwork, I help people to do that. Now, those are our long meditative journeys that really can help you to get there. But even just a few moments of breath, can help you to have that presence with those sensations in your body and allow them to release or to relax or to go away or to process whatever it is that is trying to get your attention. Yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 33:06

And it's somatic work, really, it's getting, it's getting that mind body connection and using the breath to make that connection. And again, the Could you describe to people before maybe we do a little exercise? What is the autonomic nervous system based on your own work and how you would describe it to somebody because you're doing more direct connection work, it seems around that then I might be able to argue, yeah,

JEN LISS: 33:32

so the autonomic nervous system consists of the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, a lot of us are living in the sympathetic nervous system, that is the activated nervous system. It's fight, flight, fight, flight freeze. That's the system that, you know, when we get on our phones, and we're getting notifications, and we're checking our emails, we're not, we tend to not breathe in that. And our body kind of locks up, it's prepared to jump, it's prepared to go, it's prepared to move, and we're living a lot of our life and that the parasympathetic is your best and digest. So everything is a little bit slower, it's more relaxed, the blood flow is going to different areas of your body because you have no reason to jump so you're not all tensed and tight. So what I do with breathwork is help people to become more flexible between the two. Because ideally, as a human being, you are moving between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic more easily. With ease with flow, you have a big window that you know your body is aware of, okay, here's my window where I'm moving back and forth between the two. But most of us have this very tight window where we're jumping between the two or for a lot of people, you're never even moving into the parasympathetic at all you're staying over. And that's an attic nervous system. So that's controlled by there's this thing called the vagus nerve, it runs from the base of your brain all the way down your spine to your tailbone. And there's messages that are being sent on that vagus nerve all the time telling your body, I need to be in rested digest or I need to be over here in the fight flight mode. So again, so many of us have this teeny, tiny little window of tolerance where we're just like ping ponging back and forth between the two instead of flowing. So as we breathe, and we make ourselves more aware of our emotions and we use our breath. We are we create a larger window of tolerance for ourselves more flexibility in that nervous system, less rigid of a nervous system. So the breath is really interesting too, because it is both voluntary and involuntary. Most things in your body are not. So you can use your breath, your heart's just beating, you can't say heart, please beat, your skin just heals, you can't say skin, I would like you to heal right now, you know, those things happen automatically, but your breath, you can say, okay, breath, I will take a deep one. And I will take a long exhale, or I will breathe shallow, or I will breathe deeply. So we have so much control of our nervous system with our breath, because the breath activates the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, you can activate the parasympathetic through nose, breathing, and through long breathing like long inhales long, holds long exhales, you can activate that parasympathetic, you can also activate your sympathetic. So in breathwork, we do both now so that we can toggle

Nicoa Coach: 36:34

that you are that's well articulated better than I would have been able to do it. I've heard all of those things before, but I've never had to articulate it like that. So what I also want people to look up if they're not already looking up breathwork and your site, Jin lis.com, I want them to look up the vagus nerve, because I didn't even know about the vagus nerve until about four years ago, when a friend of mine introduced it to me. And I was like, Oh, my God. And I find myself walking around the house and singing to help calm my vagus nerve. Right, and to realign, right, I'll just, you know, make. So I understand that when you create a vibration that you can actually get calm. Would you share with us some small tips, maybe some practices that we could maybe even do right now, or at least make note off?

JEN LISS: 37:25

I will. And you know, what you just brought up is so important. And I'll take it back to the bungee jumping, because what I was doing prior to bungee jumping, because I could feel some stuff getting activated, I'm about to jump off of a bridge, I was humming to myself, humming is a very powerful signal safety. So a lot of what we're doing in order to activate the parasympathetic in order to work the vagus nerve, and to tell it, it's okay, I'm, it's okay, I'm safe, I'm safe. Humming is something that you can do, tapping across the body. So taking your right hand to your left arm, and yeah, and tapping. But doing it across the body can be a really powerful one. Taking breathing exercises through the nose can be a powerful one, all of these things help you to, to calm down and signal safety to your body and even saying, I am safe. In fact, I interviewed on a podcast yesterday. And she said she does a lot of this work too. And she said, What's even more powerful is to say you are safe to yourself, you are instead of I am safe, because we speak so much more kindly to other people. And so if you say to yourself, you are safe, you're more likely to believe it. I thought that was

Nicoa Coach: 38:41

you know, we're actually talking to that that little girl, that little version of us. Because that's the memory. That's the cellular trigger that's embedded. It's from our past. So saying you I'm glad you told me that I'm going to do that shift with my clients, because we often practice saying I am safe. Like you said, and you know what else? When you said that about the humming? There's a member of my family who doesn't even know they're doing that. And they will hum and I know they're doing it when they're nervous. I see it happen. And I'll think oh, they're a little anxious right now, I just because I began to notice the humming associates with these moments of anxiety. And I was like, oh, their body already knows what to do.

JEN LISS: 39:26

Yeah, our bodies do know what to do. But we're so up in our heads that we're overriding the signals from our body or if you're not queued in, like I talked about earlier. If you're not queued in to your body and witnessing those signals, you don't realize what you need. So we're not giving our bodies what it needs. And so we're staying in that activated state. Instead of coming back down and seeing the signals for what they are sometimes we're simply afraid of the signals when all the signal is there to tell us to do is to signal safety to ourselves,

Nicoa Coach: 39:58

but our bodies are giving us a message like you say it's energy in motion emotion. It is what moves us it is trying to message us and you know, I've had my kids yeah, I don't want to feel this. I don't want to feel bad I'm like well, if the longer you resist it, the longer it'll stay there. So be feel bad. Go ahead give yourself permission to sit in the feeling of the bad and then it'll go it'll process through a lot quicker than if we're resisting it. Okay, got a lot of talking heads out there. Don't wait gin. Yeah,

JEN LISS: 40:30

Ah, where it's almost like we're disconnected.

Nicoa Coach: 40:35

Yeah, well, I always say breathe in through the nose and wiggle your toes in the moment, right into the nose and wiggle your toes. So hands on the heart. And maybe it sounds like we should be doing some hunting. why don't why don't you talk to us about your year? And, and how you have incorporated these practices, again, into your lifestyle? Like, is this something you have a ritual around? Or do you just do this when you feel the need? Or both?

JEN LISS: 41:05

Yeah, I wake up and I do, what I tell with my clients is release, align and shine. That's the process that I teach. So what I do is I wiggle a little bit to release a little bit of stuck energy from sleeping, and I align, which is taking some nice deep breaths, and just reminding myself of who I am, you know, and what I came here to do, and who I want to be, who do I want to show up as today. And then shining, and just checking in with myself and opening up that heart space and opening up that light that's within me. So that's my morning practice that I do is just wiggle out that stuck energy, align, and then shine, you know, who is the person who I want to be today and reconnecting with the heart, it sounds like a lot of what you do, too, it's just, you know, get back in to the body, and reconnect with the heart. Because that's where our light exists. You know, it's like the heart is like this portal to the light within and really that positive energy, it's so easy to be overtaken by some of the negative just based on the world that we're in. So reconnecting to that is really important. And then throughout the day, you know, checking in, am I breathing shallow? Can I breathe a little bit more deeply? Can I feel my feet? Can I feel my toes? is feeling all the way down to your toes? You know that you're sensing back into the body when you do that?

Nicoa Coach: 42:29

Yeah, and I love it. Because I know I can trust that in my day, you know, when you can, everybody listening, you don't have to have the same morning ritual. Go figure out your own, you know, and maybe it's an evening ritual, maybe you're gonna dance in the kitchen and let all the energy out from the day and then go to sleep, whatever works for you. But get your mind body soul connection reintegrated. If you're suffering, don't run to the doctor to get that pill first. Start here, start with what you're eating. Are you sleeping? You know all the basics? And how do you actually gin do intake with your clients? Like what kind of questions do you ask them? I'm curious.

JEN LISS: 43:12

Yeah, so that's a good question. My clients tend to be people who have something that they really desire and really want, and they're getting caught up in fear. So I work specifically with a lot of fear, which tends to show up in people as overthinking, perfectionism, you know, striving, overworking, all of those things actually are fear based. So I help people to accomplish the things that they want to with more fun and more ease. So the questions that I really by the time they come to me, I generally know that they're probably already vetted. Because they've been attracted. Yeah, yeah. Which is my favorite way to gain clients is simply by attraction. That's really the model that I prefer to have setup. That's the model that I had set up when I was a hairstylist, too. It's like, just attract the right people. So and I think that that's right, the best way for most of us.

Nicoa Coach: 44:12

Yeah, I remember when somebody's saying to me, I was having a, I was having a woe is me moment about clients or money or something a while back. And they said, Well, why don't you just, you should just make like, you know, 40 phone calls every week, and you shouldn't I just kind of sat there listening to their solutioning. And I thought, no, that's not how I do it. I was like, I just get through the muck of the fear, uncertainty and doubt, which I call the Fudd factor. And then I trust. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, that, of course, I'm anxious. Naturally, I'd be anxious, validate, validate. And then I'm like, Oh, I can't wait to see who calls me next, and needs me to coach them. And I wake up every morning with the I wonder what's gonna happen. So it sounds like you do the same thing. Like I trust, you know, I'm attracting. And I'm

JEN LISS: 45:02

not gonna say that. It's like that every day. I mean, the the early stages of building a business, I have to remind myself, you know, when you first started to build that hair business, there were days where you had that, that little bit of panic. And that's why we have tools like breathwork that we can pull out or RTT or whatever, all of the tools that you offer to your clients. That's why we have these things, whatever it is that works for you that you can pull out of your toolbox and those moments where it does start to get overwhelming where trust Test is really difficult, because we know that all of the good things come in and magnetize to us when we are blessing and releasing, like, this is what I desire. And I'm going to release and allow it to come to me and have that trust, we know that. And yet our mind wants to get all like controlli about things because we just start to fear things. And so having these tools is what is so supportive. And I know, particularly for my clients, that one of the tools that we were not taught is reconnecting to our bodies, and allowing ourselves to touch what you said, the heart, the mind, the soul, all of these things getting more connected. That's what we need in those moments of intense fear and anxiety, more than anything, and a lot of us don't have that tool. So I really just am so passionate about helping people to get that reconnection built within themselves, because it makes such a difference.

Nicoa Coach: 46:27

You know, everybody does need a toolkit, I think if they've listened to these podcast interviews, that it's a theme, I'm telling you, it's like I'm I feel like we're repeating ourselves, but I guess we'll just keep repeating ourselves until people can hear it. And they'll pick it up, and they'll take it. You know, we didn't even talk about this piece, though. And I really would, of course, look at that. It's only been 45 minutes. Oh my god, we're gonna keep talking. Because the best part about you saying yes to being on my podcast, and I've been watching some of your professional speaking videos, and is that you said to me, You sent me a little voicemail after I invited you. And you said, Well, I was just looking at your Instagram account. And once I saw that post where you were juggling in the kitchen, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna get on her podcast. Because you're fun, and you're glittery, and you play. So tell us about play in the context of all this breath work. And we're getting to, you know, keep our little versions safe. How do you play?

JEN LISS: 47:30

Yeah, fun is so silliness is one of my core values. I'm passionate about silliness about fun. And yet, it's also my wound. Because if we go back to that fourth grade story, my natural inclination is to have fun with things. And then a piece of me overrides and says, that's not safe. It's not safe to be you. It's not safe to have fun. It's not safe to be silly. So I am passionate about bringing that into what I teach. And what I teach people is that joy is your strategy. Truly, because joy and fun is an act of love. And we're either in fear, or we're in love. And fun, fun is loving. It is loving it is where creativity thrives when we're having fun when we're juggling in the kitchen, when we're trying something new and laughing at ourselves. That whatever your fun is, that's that's where the goodness magnetizes. You know, that's where you can, you can trust, fun. But a lot of us don't believe we can. So that's where it's like it, I do get serious about that. Because it's like, we don't trust our fun. And it's wild, how we don't believe that it's safe, to have fun and to be enjoy. And so really re signaling to our bodies, and it's safe for me to have fun. And it's so safe for me to have many

Nicoa Coach: 48:50

people. I just want to shake everybody. I'm like, relax, let's play. Let's spin in public what? You know, I'm all dancing in the kitchen. I even asked my neighbor kid, I can see her house from here. She only comes to her dad every other week. And so I didn't I don't usually see her. And so I saw her with her dad at the restaurant nearby. And I said, Oh, I said MC, I have a favor to ask you. And she's like, what? And I said, Listen, if it's okay with you and your dad, do you think that maybe I could jump on that trampoline of yours when maybe you're not in town? She said yes. And I still haven't done it. I'm a little bit scared to go over there as this 54 year old lady walking down the street jumping in the neighbor, kids trampoline, but I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it. Yes.

JEN LISS: 49:39

Do it. See, you're such a gift. A person like you who you know shows up and you are so fully yourself and you're having fun. It's such a gift. And it shows the rest of us what is possible for us and you're just like a big walking permission slip for everybody else. And when we begin to see that, that by showing up so fully as me it's permission for other people. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for others, but really, you're doing it for yourself. You are doing it for others. But I think sometimes that's what we need is really realizing how much it's supportive to others when you have your own fun. And also it's the portal to all things that you really desire is you having fun because that's what you're meant to do in this world. I talked about glitter. I talked about magic. My whole program is crafted around glitter and magic. And I call my coaching clients unicorns. And yes, we're full blown adults, and most of them have children who have unicorn bedsheets. But I just think we have to have more fun. And it's just this reminder that you are so full of magic. Truly, we're all made of stardust. And we have so much to offer the world and we just don't see it. And that makes us miserable, because we're not sprinkling our glitter in the way that we're meant to be. So, I just, I'm so passionate about each of us really fully just embodying our magic.

Nicoa Coach: 51:05

Ah, you are magical. And I think that's probably the biggest compliment I've ever received. I'm not kidding you, Jim, you are a walking permission slip. I am just getting I've always felt like I was. And this is also my wound to him. And martyr me like, Oh my God, why do I have to be you know, two steps ahead. Everybody freaking out in some areas of life like that, like, I'm so exhausted. How come I have to be the one who's having fun? How come? They can't be fun for me? Like, how come they're not pulling me but then I pull myself back out. And I'm gonna like, well, because I'm supposed to be having fun for them. And it's also fueling me. You know, it reminds me of once I took two of my kids, it was a teacher workday, I worked full time had a stay at home husband. And I took them to like breakfast for lunch for their teacher workday. And we were just having a lovely time eating pancakes and everything. And the waitress would bring us what we needed. And we were laughing and she watched this, she comes up and says, she's pouring my coffee. And she says, Are you their aunt? I was like, No, I'm their mom. And she goes, Oh, and it gives me chills telling you gin because that was the biggest compliment I've ever thought, Oh, I'm their mama. And you think I'm an aunt? Because I'm having fun with my kids. And I'm not yelling at them and grabbing them and tell them to do I mean, right?

JEN LISS: 52:34

What a gift, you're such a gift that other people seeing that as an example of how somebody can be showing up in the world. Genuinely, that is that is your gift. And each of us has something like that, and we don't see it. And so often we do see it as a negative. And so it's shifting out of that, because it can be exhausting. It's like why am I the only one that sees things this way? Or is weird, because nobody else seems to be showing up with it. And it's like, that's because that's the thing that you offer. That's the thing that you try

Nicoa Coach: 53:07

and give yourself permission. Yeah, you've got to be you got to put it out there and, and I often will get my hand slapped because I my wound is also too much, oh, there's too much. Chill out, you're too loud. That look. Don't be dancing in public, you know, and the people around you will try to dim your light. And they don't mean to they're filtering it from their own insecurities. But they they can't relax enough into their nervous system. They haven't ever done the breath work. They haven't ever wiggled their toes long enough to sit with their own emotions, like you've described in order to allow the people around them to just be and that's what you're doing your you're giving people permission to be beautifully glittery and unicorny. And I love watching your presentations online. I had so much fun. I was like, Oh, I better hurry up. She got the dial in. I've got to stop watching. I couldn't stop watching you magical beautiful woman.

JEN LISS: 54:07

Yeah, I you know, I think that that's, that is what it is we each we have something that is so powerful, that it's almost a little bit blinding to other people, especially if they're not awake to their own gifts. And so we try to dim each other down because it's triggering something in ourselves about our own stuff. And when we can have awareness around that, that changes everything, just having the awareness that it's like it's not about me being too bright, it's about them being able to see the brightness like their eyes, they've just gone from a dark cave out into the brightness and they just can't it's too much right now for them. And that doesn't mean that you need to dim it down they just need to spend a little bit more time in the light and their their aperture is going to open up a little bit more and it will be less painful.

Nicoa Coach: 55:03

That's such a beautiful analogy. You're so good at that. I love that so much

JEN LISS: 55:11

it's just a big compliment fest you know

Nicoa Coach: 55:15

stop No, keep giving me more No. Okay. Yes, thank you. love fest. Well, that's what I'm having ever here. These are a bunch of love fest I'm loving up on everybody I've talked to but I will say the trigger I have when people around me and please family members love ones exes. Wow. I mean, I love all of you guys. And I want to apologize for not knowing any better for my own need to be so bright. Oh my god, I'm gonna choke up. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh my god, Sorry, Jen. Or Thank you, Jen. I'm so sorry for not being able to see that you were just blinded. And you weren't ready. You can send me a coaching bill later.

JEN LISS: 56:07

But yeah, that's thank you for being so vulnerable. I mean, this is this is, this is it, you know, we feel like, wow, I'm gonna get choked up, because it's just so true. We feel like we can't be our full, brightest, shiniest selves. And that's truly that is what the world wants. And it's what the world needs, and we don't feel safe to do it. And people who are brave like you who are putting this podcast out there, you're out there supporting other people to do this to like, it's just so needed and your light Nicoa is so damn needed, like more than more than, you know, so many, I guess we're all equal, but like, what you do this giant permission slip that you are so dang needed. It's so dang needed. You're just such a gift.

Nicoa Coach: 56:57

And I just thank you, thank you, thank you, and I just my healing is in I'm sure you see this with your clients and with yourself as well, that healing for me needs to be that's not about me. I am safe to be me. And I'm, I don't have to hold it back. And even when I do theirs, I think I have this trigger of disappointment and sadness, that the other person can't match the energy. And whoever that might be the customer service rep, the husband, the kid in that moment, and I have a lot of impatience. And you'd might laugh. You're when Nicoa you're a coach. Well, let me tell you, I'm patient all day long for all my coaching clients. And then when it comes to me and all my people, I'm like, totally impatient.

JEN LISS: 57:49

Sorry, I talked to my husband. Yeah.

Nicoa Coach: 57:52

Joey, I feel for ya. I mean, John, my husband, I feel for him too. But thank you, thank you for being you. And for being so nice and kind to give me all those compliments. I really needed them today. I guess there was a lot of emotion that came up with that, which is good.

JEN LISS: 58:12

It sure It sure is, it's it's so good to have that energy moving and flowing. And even after this, you can go and like shake and do some somatic like, rub off some of that energy that you just released, because you really did, right, like so actually just shake, you know, rub off on your arms and rub that energy off and shake and do some deep breaths, dance, whatever it is that supports you can be so powerful. So one of my what you made me think of is Snoop Dogg. So you're like the Snoop Dogg of, of fun? What he said somebody was like, how do you keep rising when you have so much like, you know, limitation around you some of the people that you grew up with? Like, how do you just keep allowing yourself to rise and he said, the higher I rise, the higher they can come with me. And I know I've got to be the person who goes up just a little bit higher. And so that's true for you with what you're doing. And it's probably true for so many of your listeners too. And it's scary. It is like stepping off of that bridge, it's scary. Every time you elevate yourself just a little bit more every time you're just a little bit louder, and allow yourself to just be so fully you, you're stretching the capability for somebody else to be so fully themselves. And so you're just creating space, and it sure it's scary as heck. And you can still do it. And then you can go shake off or dance or whatever you've got to do after yourself. It's cool.

Nicoa Coach: 59:44

Oh, you're the best right? So and those are great practices, really people I do a karate chop by the way of energy energetic cords and any kind of energy that's on me that I get on me during sessions or whatever or even if I've walked past some negative dynamics in, in like at the Target or Walmart or the grocery store or wherever. If I walk in past the energy of people, I'm like, oh, cut that off. Like I don't want that energy to latch on. And so you're really reminding me that that practice is another one that can be helpful in keeping the autonomic nervous system calm. Hey, Hank, giving ourselves permission to go over here being the energy that we want to continue to participate in. I don't have to hang out with catabolic energy if I don't choose to But my hand is extended as yours at my hand is extended to the people I do want to be with come with me, come, please come, run to the top of this mountain and yell with me and play with me and be your authentic, nice, amazing, untethered self. Right? I love your language. Ah, what is it that's next for you in this untethered world that you're creating this life by design? What do you want to share with everybody that you're working on? I

JEN LISS: 1:00:59

love that you call it a life by design. That's such a beautiful way to talk about just crafting a life that you love. And I don't know. Yeah, and I think that's what's fun about it. I never could have planned this, I would not have thought after I left hair, I was going to, you know, go into marketing, I was going to like you, I went into HR, I went into employee experience strategy, I had this really windy path that has led to me to being a coach and a speaker, and a breath worker, I have no idea where I'm going. But I'm having a lot of fun. And I know that I'm helping people and supporting people along the way, love to travel. So I know that all of that is involved. And you know what, we're just going to see where this all takes me?

Nicoa Coach: 1:01:39

Well, I think that your answer is a pretty typical one, because most people don't know. And even though they think they might, some people actually are like, well, I want to make this much money and have this house and do these things. So let me ask the question a little bit differently. What type of emotional or what type of feelings? Are you hoping to foster more of as you continue down on your life by design path?

JEN LISS: 1:02:03

It's a great question, freedom, freedom. I mean, freedom to me feels like, I can be me, it feels like joy. It feels like fun. It feels like silliness. It feels like passion. It feels clear, and peaceful. All of those things I went, we talked about bungee jumping, but I've also been hang gliding and that feeling of, I go back to that feeling all the time. It's like my happy place of just coasting above this beach. And just looking out onto the horizon like that is the feeling that I am seeking all the time. And I know that that feeling exists within me. And I have fortunately that beautiful, actual experience that I can go back to have that feeling. And I just want more and more of those experiences that allow me to feel that

Nicoa Coach: 1:02:57

beautiful. I had a coaching client at NC State MBA student. And they were given access to a little bit of cash to do a personal leadership development challenge. And she chose to go hang gliding because she was going to quit her job and go to a new one. And she goes, I want to hang glide into that next job with ease and peace. And so when you just described that it made me think of her I hope she will be listening on to send her this episode. Oh Jin LIS You are beautiful light. And you. You helped me today. Thank you.

JEN LISS: 1:03:30

You're so welcome. You're so welcome. Thank you.

Nicoa Coach: 1:03:34

How can people find you? What do you want people to be thinking about? If they want to work with you? Is there anything you'd like to share before we hang up?

JEN LISS: 1:03:42

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram. I'm untethered Jen, my podcast untethered with Jen LIS, and I'm launching a breathwork membership coming up. So if you're curious about breath work, you can join the membership. Or you can do a drop in so that you can come experience it sometimes. So you can check out all of those details@generalists.com once they're available.

Nicoa Coach: 1:04:03

I will love definitely go check that out. I'm so excited. And you really opened my eyes to some new new practices for my toolbox. So thank you, dear. It's a pleasure to get to know you and connect with you and I have a feeling that we'll be connected for a very long time.

JEN LISS: 1:04:18

It's mutual. Thank you so much for having me on.

Jennifer Gardner: 1:04:24

Thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with Nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with Nicoa and check out our website Coffee with nicoa.com and that's Nicoa N I CoA. We look forward to talking with you soon. And enjoy your coffee between now and then